I had this dream in which I was repeatedly slapping someone called Christina in the face- what does it all mean?

(Christina has responded- see comments for what she says)

I’m, ahem, mildly critical of New Age-y pseudoscience.  It depresses me that “experts” like Gillian McKeith find their way onto our TV screens and peddle their non-science to the masses.  And today something came to my attention that I found hilarious.  But first…

It might have slipped your attention but I write a blog about living with severe mental illness and as your humble narrator, I’ve received hundreds of well intentioned e-mails offering me “the cure” (and often, for a price).  They’ve ranged from the sensible but misguided like DIET and EXERCISE, the vaguely credible scientific sounding Neurolinguistic Programming and to the downright trying to stifle a guffaw bollocks, such as  exposing myself to “midday sun” (but not early morning sun, apparently, this is bad, though it was never explained why.  Maybe the planets would realign, or, just maybe I’d spontaneously combust.  And what do they mean by “exposing myself”?  Do they want me to get my arse out?  I know I’m pale, don’t rub it in.).  I’ve also been asked to try out various homeopathic remedies at a “reduced cost”.  Well, don’t I feel special.

New Age pseudoscience is basically nothing tied up in vaguely scientific terminology.  Homoepathic remedies, for example, are concerned with treating “like with like” and are sold in bottles that look like they came on prescription.

The remedies undergo “Serial dilution”:

Serial dilution is one of the core foundational practices of homeopathy, with “succussion“, or shaking, occurring between each dilution. In homeopathy, serial dilutions (called potentisation) are often taken so far that by the time the last dilution is completed, no molecules of the original substance are likely to remain.

…meaning that by the time they’re sold, they are water. But it retains the, er, “memory” of the original substance.

However, some alternative medicines (so called because they’re not proven, had they been, and if they become so, they’ll just be medicine) and New Age remedies are slightly more credible than others.  And there are some that make you want to punch the monitor.

Take “expert” Christina Sponias who thinks that we can CURE! mental illness by the “scientific method” of analysing our dreams.  She says she is continuing Carl Jung’s work (and indeed says she is better than him) but seems only to have condensed his extremely wide reaching and complex theories and philosphies into fodder.  She has a free e-book called: Battling Depression and Craziness.   All of which certainly make for interesting reading, and I truly mean that.

She’s a font of knowledge, I mean, here’s what she has to say about schizophrenia (which Mental Nurse has already touched on):

Schizophrenia is the total invasion of the content of the wild conscience of the human being, into the conscious field. This means that the person is dominated by another personality: their primitive self, which is violent, immoral and cruel like a wild animal.

The unconscious mind shows them in their dreams all their mistakes, and they understand that they are responsible for their misfortune. This comprehension eliminates their hate for their enemies.

A schizophrenic patient is totally insensitive, and this is why he is very cruel and violent, without feeling the pain he is provoking to the others. He is totally disconnected with the external reality.

This is the result of the domination of his wild personality and the only possible psychotherapy for him is the elimination of the anti-conscience that dominates this brain and psyche completely. It has to be transformed into human, so that the person may find peace and mental health.

This is a very arduous process after the destruction of the human side of the human conscience. This is why we must prevent craziness and never let any human being become schizophrenic.

Schizophrenia is the worse existent mental illness…

However, the scientific method of dream interpretation can help schizophrenic patients eliminate the monster that dominates them, and acquire a human personality, even though they cannot recuperate their destroyed human conscience.

EH WHAT.

I’m going to hand that out to my schizophrenic and schizoaffective WILD ANIMAL friends.

Firstly, she starts out on the basic, common ignorance that schizophrenia is a “split personality” (or, this could be metaphorical, but I very much doubt she has a basic grasp on it anyway).  Most people I’ve ever met have thought this, and here it is, being peddled by an “expert” who claims to be a psychotherapist!  Schizophrenia means “split mind”, but that’s not “split personality”.

Secondly, has this woman even met someone with schizophrenia?  How dare she make value judgments on their being such as: cruel, violent, insensitive.  These are judgments, they are not symptoms.

This crap just promotes the staggering ignorant assumption that people with schizophrenia are dangerous.  About 1% of all violent crime is committed by someone with schizophrenia- and that’s just incidental, like you’d say 40% of crimes were committed by people with a car.  Many people with schizophrenia, like other mental illnesses, are suicidal, not homicidal, and not violent.  And the “negative symptoms” of schizophrenia trouble people as much, or more than, the psychotic symptoms (of which are not confined to schizophrenia).

And schizophrenia isn’t the worst mental illness.  There is no worst mental illness.  All of them affect people differently.  I hate this cloak and dagger business of schizophrenia being the “cancer” of mental illness.  That it’s hopeless.  It’s not, it’s just a frigging mental illness like manic depression is. People with mental illness are just sodding PEOPLE. And mental illness is an illness like others, at least that’s my “from reading and goddamn a lot of experience” opinion.  And as for the use of craziness, that’s one for our personal relationships and us crazies to use, not for quacks to use in regards to people with mental illness.

If you were feeling left out, she has some theories on bipolar disorder, too:

If you suffer from bipolar disorder this means that you are frequently dominated by the wild side of your brain and psyche, which pretends to belong to your human conscience, but is in fact a violent animal, without human feelings, that tries to mislead you.

Really?  Which are you talking about, mania or depression?

What does it mean to be dominated by the wild side of your conscience? The anti-conscience (wild side of your conscience) is a true demon and it invades the human side of your conscience through absurd ideas, feelings and sensations. If you pay attention to them, the demon becomes stronger and you gradually start losing the notion of what you are doing. You forget your moral principles, nothing has any meaning for you, you accept immorality… you gradually forget who you are.

Ah, mania then. What exactly is immorality?  Are we making value judgements again, missus?

When you are bipolar this means that the anti-conscience frequently invades the human side of your conscience, constantly sending you absurd ideas, feelings and sensations, or even a strange intuition.

However, this domination doesn’t last too long, and when you recuperate your human conscience, you cannot understand how you could have behaved the way you did.

Right, stop nodding at the back like I know some of you are.  This is sub par metaphorical wanking, not scientific theory.

How do I fix myself?  Oh please dear god, tell me how!

You need the protection of the unconscious mind that sends you wise messages in dreams with guidance, which works like psychotherapy.

Eh? What?

Your bipolar disorder will disappear completely as you will learn how to develop your intelligence and personality, transforming the wild content into human.

Wild content?  Look, my dreams consist of zombies, and, for some reason recently, the new Elbow album which I haven’t even heard.  What does it all mean?

Anyway!  After her profound misunderstanding of mental illness and the brain in general, we get to her methods:

Accurate dream interpretation using the proven scientific method provides a cure for depression, craziness and suicidal tendencies. The successful interpretation of each dream begins with reading the dream and understanding something about the dreamer’s life.

Let’s look at that again.

proven scientific method

Where?  Show me the data!

We must pay attention to the dream messages and learn the scientific method of dream interpretation so that we can overcome the primitive behavior of the wild anti-conscience and continue to evolve as humans. If we give in to our primitive instincts, our behavior devolves until we behave like wild animals, with cold indifference to human suffering, and prone to depression, and despair. (edit from Seaneen: in my experience: and this is anecdotal, too, people with experience of mental illness are more compassionate than your average).

Dream interpretation using the scientific method is based on translating the meaning of your dreams and dream symbols into words over a period of time. Dreams follow a logical sequence and provide information and advice gradually, so it is necessary to follow the messages over a period of time if you want to learn all the lessons they contain.

WHAT.

Remember what I said about New Age stuff?  That it’s nothing wrapped up in vaguely scientific terms?  Yeah.

This isn’t about the subsconsious or symbolism in dreams.  I think our dreams are very interesting.  What annoys me is that it’s all about a cure and the cure involves- well, nothing to do with the actual mechanics of the mind.  She also specifies that when you submit a dream:

1. Your biography is very important. Write down the most important things about you and your life.

So, say you leave the detail out of your biography that you have schizophrenia.  Do you think she’s going to give you “the cure”?  All the details you provide can easily be slotted around anything you say about your dream to seem meaningful, when really it isn’t.  It’s cold reading.  Or in this case, hot reading.

Her interpretations are irresponsible too.  She starts with:

When we interpret a dream we don’t have to explain to the dreamer why we took these conclusions.

So that basically means, like it or lump it, I am right because your dreams told me so.

I go from one point to the other but I forget my purse somewhere in the way and I cannot find it. While I was looking for my purse, I meet an old friend, who had also lost something, but I don’t remember what it was.
We go together to a place like a jungle, and many snakes appear from everywhere. I think we won’t be able to escape. At this point, I wake up.
Biography: I’m a girl 18 – 20 years old and I feel insecure many times. I have a boyfriend, but I’m not so happy. He is always with is friends or always busy doing something. I feel alone.

Dream Interpretation:

You are in danger because another guy may induce you to betray your boyfriend, and steal you from him. Another part of your personality is too inconsequent, besides your human conscience. This means that you don’t understand the danger you are in.
It is obvious that if you are not happy with your relationship, at certain point someone else will appear in your life, to fill the emptiness.
Be careful and define your position: if you are not happy, don’t insist on this relationship, otherwise you’ll have to face many other unexpected problems, that will cost you too much, even though in the end you’ll learn a lot with everything, becoming more mature.
Be intelligent and separate this guy who doesn’t really love you. Stay alone until you’ll find someone you’ll really love and who will really love you. There is no meaning on living with someone who doesn’t care for you and become a sinner because you’ll betray him in the end…

This is just Agony Aunting from the biography.  Nothing to do with dreams.  There is no “scientific method”.

But hey, it’s apparently really successful.

Everyone finds health, happiness and wisdom following this method, without exceptions.

Unless:

Only if you don’t care for your dreams will you not see any positive results.

Oh.

So if it doesn’t work, that’s your fault.

And what exactly is your “anti-conscience”?  It sounds like a euphemism for your evil twin.

Here’s me and my “human conscience” today, with Little Ted.  As you can see, we’re deeply in love.

I look like an idiot but Little Ted is HOT.

..and then…

OH NO!  LOOK WHAT MY ANTI-CONSCIENCE MADE ME DO TO LITTLE TED!

Why do I care about this random guff on the internet and this random person who charges for her services?

Well, quite apart from her absolutely infuriating misunderstanding and phenomonal prejudice of and against mental illness, it’s that people like this are becoming the new “Experts”.  She’s an extreme case of groundless quackery but just check out the world around you in which science is losing its credibility and we have endless programmes such as shite like, “The Baby Mind Reader”, holistic non-doctor McKeith in her white coat, lifestyle programmes that tell us that for well being we should align our furniture in a certain way and reiki available on the NHS when there’s a year waiting list for therapy (and therapy should be bloody mandatory for anyone with a severe mental illness, or at least should always be offered).  Science is not perfect but it exists to disprove and prove.  And its reputation is receding.

In terms of mental wellness, i.e just keeping yourself ticking over happily, or mild forms of some disorders, I say, do what you like.  Things like good diet, being active, socialising, hobbies, meditation and so on are all good.

As complimentary therapy, I don’t care and think live and let live (and I know that in itself, the more personalised approach that non-medical treatment has is enormously helpful to some people) but never say that your methods will cure someone of something when you have no concept of how someone even experiences it.

Mental illness is one of the worst of things to be afflicted by. It is isolating.  It is misunderstood.  And instead of moving into the direction of, “Hey, well, that might suck”, New Age crap like this (and it is an extreme case of it) pushes the theory of, “It’s your fault.  It’s you as a person that is bad and that’s why you’re like this and we can cure you.  If you pay me”.  Proposing a cure for anything without scientific basis is irresponsible.

In terms of mental illness and medical treatment, well, there’s the battleground.  Some drugs are apparently no better than placebo (see reactive depression and antidepressants). Some drugs should not be prescribed at all. Some work. Psychotic illnesses react well to antipsychotics.  They “work” in the sense that they help kill psychosis- the sociological aspect of that is something I’m not getting into.

But medical treatment for mental illness can be painful because of the hardcore aspect of the drugs.  In short: the side effects suck and something pissing about with your mind and motivation can be distressing as hell, take that from me. And mental illness is of the mind- no, the brain, which is an organ, too.  But unquantifiable.  So we can be sold anything and in desperation we can try anything, because there is no stick or thermometer to tell us if we’re better or not.  And we can be told that what is going on with us isn’t real in the first place (although to me, “real” just means “really affecting you, therefore if you want help with it, you should be offered it without judgment).

I think that this rise of Pseudoscience is dangerous and damaging.  It relies on anecdotal evidence and is a growing, prosperous industry and that in itself is giving it unwarranted credibility.  In some cases it exploits people’s desperation.  And I don’t think that psychiatry or even science has all the answers but it is an arena that questions rather than anecdotally accepts.  I’d rather push forward in that direction of research into things that are working or work better than most than go backwards into the direction of New Age pseudoscience that says it should work because… well, it should.  Stick it up your chakras.

(Incidentally, Christina responded with exactly what I would have expected: you cannot see the truth, so you are wrong and I am right.  Read more here.).

106 Responses

  1. Well put, Seaneen
    I like the teddy pictures. I have had a few mails offering me herbal remedies and one telling me Mental illness is the devil’s curse and all will be well if I come back to Jesus. Hmm, i think they particularly seek out people’s vulnerability (the illness) and use it to launch their own agendas.

  2. Thanks Seaneen, I needed a laugh (or something approximating an apoplectic cackle) and this provided it, and then some.

    I’m sure I saw the word ‘sinner’ in one of those quotes.

    Oh well, off to throw raw meat at my wild animal side.

    atb D

  3. I remember my boss advising me that my mental health problems could be resolved by locating my ovaries in the ball of my foot. Unfortunately it was very expensive and just as effective as colonic irrigation.

    Great post.

    P.S. Can you just reassure me that Little Ted’s Chakras have made a full recovery?

  4. Fucking pseudo-science.

    Hey Seaneen, how is the teddy doing after such an attack?

  5. Thanks Seaneeen, I often wonder about the root cause of my being mentally interesing and now I understand, I understand and am ready to rid the world of all it’s problems! Bless tinterweb

    xXx

  6. Thanks Seaneen, it reminds you that there really is true, raw ignorance out there in re: mental illness. Depressing but funny.

  7. Great post Seaneen.

    Unbelievable isn’t it? I still can’t get over how she is supposed to cure someone else’s illness by analysing her own dreams about the person. I love this bit too:
    “Dreams follow a logical sequence and provide information and advice gradually”
    So since the dreams come from our own minds, obviously we provide ourselves with this needed information through dreams. Hmmm, why don’t we just tell ourselves straight what we need to do instead of revealing it to ourselves in dreams that we don’t understand?!

    My view is that pent up emotions can sometimes affect our dreams, but there is little to interpret.

    You make so many valid points there Seaneen – I’ll just say amen to all of the above. I do think that homeopathy has some health benefits though, but probably only minor ailments – it works great for my leg pains where pain killers have failed. And my brother is amazing at diagnosing ailments through reflexology. Just to be clear, I’m not a new age hippy that believes in crystal healing – far from it, but I have been amazed at times by both of these alternative treatments. That being said, I doubt if either of these two methods could cure mental illness as it’s so complicated, and no one should claim that they have the absolute cure for any illness, least of all one that leaves the sufferer feeling so desperate.

    Am I going on too much now?

    Just a really great post. You make your point far more eloquently than I could have.

  8. you know………I’d like to release my non-caring wild animal and bite her😀

  9. Preach on, Sister Seaneen.

    I think I was probably a bit naughty in e-mailing you the link for this article. In a “light blue touch paper, stand well back” kind of way.

    I can’t help it. My subconscious made me do it. I read her article on bipolar disorder, immediately passed out and started dreaming of you tearing her a new arsehole. It appears my dream came true.😀

  10. Christina Sponias sucks, I have evidence via a proven scientific method.

  11. […] This is a long post.  I haven’t had time to re-read it.  What I love is the passion born of experience. And the challenge. […]

  12. Thank you very much for a piece that captured my interest. I’ve featured your post over on my blog. Greetings from Cork Ireland

  13. I first met these witch-doctors when I had cancer. They said the illness was my fault, since I was too stressed, or maybe my mother’s who was not enough a good mother. I hate them, I’m afraid. If they don’t know what they’re doing (some of them don’t) I should pity them, I know.

    I love the bear, by the way. Did you do something particularly wild and unusual (as your illness commands) with his internal stuffing?😉

  14. Your dream means that you want to slap someone called Chrisitina in the face. Such is my non scientific view.

    As for whatever people find therapeutic…then is there choice to take it.

    I don’t think having a dream catcher over my bed is going to stop me having nightmare’s. I don’t think praying to any particular God is going to save my soul (or offer slightest relief whilst I am alive).

    Nor do I think (as yet) there is a particular shrinky medication that will improve my mental state. My drug of preference is not one widely accepted as useful (in the long term) nor may it prove to be so for me…but I don’t care. Right now it works for me and I tend to live in the now.

    The future..hell that is for the fortune tellers to work out!!!!

  15. Thank you very much for caring about my work, even though you didn’t accept the truth.

    The human being is a very cruel animal. He needs wisdom! The unconscious mind that produces our dreams can transform his wild nature in human nature.

    Thank you for all your attacks! I forgive you, because you ignore too much. And I respect your right to have your opinions.

    I don’t have time to read everything you wrote, but I saw your comments.

    Now, please read the sample of my ebook Dream Interpretation as a Science, where I prove, with real examples, the power of dream messages! I’m sure you’ll be able to understand what I really mean with what I say, and if you read my biography, you’ll learn that I’ve cured many people with serious mental illnesses before giving you my lessons.

    Here is the link:

    http://www.booksirecommend.com/shop/samples.html

    And please, visit my blog Stop Cutting Today:

    http://stopcuttingtoday.blogspot.com

    All the best!

    Christina

  16. Hi Christina, thanks for visiting. I read the samples and still think you’re very misguided. You really have a rather ignorant grasp on mental illness. Nothing you’ve said or shown or linked has proven to me that you know what you’re talking about or that your “methods”- which are not scientific and are certainly not proven scientifically- are anything beyond very basic psychoanalysis. I think, without any real understanding, knowledge or education in treating mental illness, you need to put up or shut up.

  17. MMW: as I said, I think there’s something in some forms of alternative medicine but few and far between, in my opinion. Reflexology is one of those things I’m feel quite benign towards.

    Marta: I hope you don’t mind me asking but what happened? Where did these people find you?

  18. I have to comment that Christina’s “practice” is a blatant exhibition of preying on vulnerable people. Perhaps she does not even realize that her “animal side” has completely engulfed her “humanity.” This kind of disgusting self promotion should be exposed for what it really is. Carl Jung would most likely sneer at the thought of being connected to someone so unprofessional and greedy.

  19. Science = Someone has done experiments and has evidence to support their theories AND when new evidence becomes available, the theories are modified.

    Christina = One point of view. Convinced she’s right and won’t look at scientific studies. Hasn’t got a clue about schizophrenia. Hasn’t got data available to support her claims.

    Hmmm…. now, do I stick to science, or do I follow the snake oil saleswoman?

    There are ALWAYS going to be people out there who pretend they can cure cancer or mental illness. It makes you question their mental state – for someone to give false hope and make money off the back of it – they must have some serious issues.

    Maybe Christina should enrole in her own program? Clearly she’s got issues involving money and a superiority complex to boot.

    It’s a shame that people will throw away money on snake oil when real research labs are under funded.

  20. @Christina

    Sorry but you don’t have the right to say she can’t see the truth. You need to lookup definitions, truth being one of them. You also might want to research the scientific theory aswell, it involves having concrete evidence and basing a hypothesis off that and not inventing your own theory from dreams (when actually, nobody truely knows what a dream is).

    The danger with alternative treatments is belief, alot of people say you need to believe it works, hence, you’re believing that you’re better if you do recover.

    Somebody with mental health who believe they are better are more dangerous than people who feel unwell. Lift someone higher, they fall even harder. I’ve heard of it happening from colleagues.

    I’m just saddened at how you have… I don’t know… primative views on the human psyche. Like Carl Jung, you’re hitting the spot and missing the target at the same time. You just have a far worse aim than him.

    I’m afraid you can’t see the truth. ;P Your views are abit zealotus.

  21. […] I had this dream in which I was repeatedly slapping someone called Christina in the face- what does … […]

  22. @Christina

    I’m sorry but I agree with every word of Seaneen’s assessment. Your approach strikes me as moralistic, pseudoscientific and deeply ignorant of the nature of mental illness.

    I also note that your Stop Cutting website continues the heavy-handed moralising theme, which would probably do more to make a self-harmer feel worse about themselves – and probably also abandon therapy – than it would to help them to control and then stop self-harming.

    As a mental health clinician, I would not recommend your approach to anyone.

  23. Oh, and this from Christina’s self-harm blog.

    Self-mutilation gives pleasure only to those that are dominated by the crazy anti-conscience, which likes terror because it doesn’t know how to find peace.

    Live as a human being, building and evolving, and not like a wild animal, bleeding and destroying.

    Now that science finally reveals to you all the secrets of the best free method of psychotherapy you could ever find, only if you are completely masochist and you prefer to suffer without salvation, will you continue abusing your body.

    Besides being a misfortune to be led by this absurd tendency to harm your own body, you are lucky because at least you can easily learn my dynamic method of scientific dream translation, and understand immediately the dream messages that will give you back the peace, the freedom and the happiness you lost when you became a slave of the wild anti-conscience, your primitive side.

    Is all this meant to stop people from injuring themselves by giving them the uncontrollable urge to injure somebody else instead?

  24. I’m glad Christina posted here. Here avatar is scary enough to do the job for us.

  25. Christina’s twitter is quite interesting:

    http://twitter.com/chrissponias

    Your opinion is not really useful, unless you are a genius.

    Yes, the self harm page is really something.

    (P.S: If responses to Christina or just in general become personal or abusive, they’ll be deleted by me).

  26. I delayed 19 years to present my work to the public exactly because I knew that I needed to give you all the answers.

    You have to read my articles and ebooks and try to understand everything I say without having the intention to attack me, if you want to learn something with my work.

    Charles Darwin was super attacked too, when he declared that the human being is a descendent of primates.

    I declare that the human being has the brain of a monster, because its biggest part belongs to the wild side of the human conscience, which is primitive and violent. This is why our world is governed by terrorism and violence, while everything is camouflaged by hypocrisy and futility.

    Now, about Twitter, I was helping certain people that try to acquire followers without giving any specific information. People that only give their personal opinion shall not expect to be followed by too many on Twitter.

    I was telling them that their opinion is not so useful and they have to post useful links if they want to be followed, exactly because many people were following me with the intention to make me follow them back.

    I was explaining them why I would not follow them, and by the way giving a general advice to those that care about acquiring many followers.

    I hope you’ll read my articles and ebooks looking for knowledge and not looking for points though which you could attack me…

  27. Please don’t declare yourself the next Darwin.

    I’m not looking for points with which to attack you but I have a lot of experience with mental illness (as I know you do- unless “schizophrenic” to you is just a term, rather than a diagnosis) and your work is really quite amazingly ignorant of what mental illness is, or even as to how someone experiences it. It’s demeaning, it’s moralistic and it’s based on nothing. You have never explained what you are basing your “methods” on- you keep saying that they’re scientific but there’s no basis to that whatsoever. I admire your pioneer spirit but really, everything you are telling us telling is anecdotal, as your “theories” about the world.

    You are practising something extremely irresponsible since you clearly have very little real grasp on mental health.

    With all due respect you seem to be quite self aggrandisizing and not at all open to debate.

  28. I think Christina could probably cure some mild forms of depression if she does a face to face service rather than just emailing.

    If I saw her once a week I’d have a laugh riot thinking up ever more bewildering dreams to tell her about and the task would then be not to giggle as she made up whatever guff she felt would most likely impress me. I’m sure I’d look forward to the appointments.

    Good post Seaneen.

    As a fully grown sceptic you may enjoy this interview where Richard Dawkins asks Derren Brown about how spiritualists ply their trade. A short edit made it onto the programme Dawkins made but this is the uncut version:

    http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Xswt8B8-UTM

  29. You are not talking but offending me. I have cured many people by translating their dreams according to the scientific method of dream interpretation.

    If you pay attention to what I relate in my ebook Dream Interpretation as a Science, after translating the dreams of 47 dreamers, you’ll realize that this is really a scientific work, because it is based on facts and real treatments. It is not based on suppositions, theories or my personal opinion.

    A work is scientific when we give proofs that what we do works in practice and for everyone, and has real positive results.

  30. Okay, Christina: explain the scientific method without, please, forcing other people to download your work or sign up to your email list, which is a dirty trick.

    It’s interesting that you’re offended by what I’m saying. I think I have been wholly reasonable and that you can’t take criticism. You seem to discount whatever disagrees with you. (see confirmation bias)

    I seriously don’t understand your methods or your claims, and I also don’t understand where you’ve gotten your information from on mental health because you have a fundamental lack of understanding about it.

    Your methods are not scientific. For a method to be scientific, in short:

    To be termed scientific, a method of inquiry must be based on gathering observable, empirical and measurable evidence subject to specific principles of reasoning. A scientific method consists of the collection of data through observation and experimentation, and the formulation and testing of hypotheses.

    As you can see, your methods are not scientific.

    As for your personal theories, I observed in one of your dreams you say that seeing a black man in a dream is bad, because the colour black is bad: where’s the evidence that the colour “black” means something bad, other than in forklore and discriminatory thinking? Having been familiar with dream interpretations and with Jung, I don’t see this kind of thing anywhere- you seem to just be pulling stuff out of the air rather than having any basis for it.

  31. Thanks, Bod! Dawkins and Derren seem to be the poster boys of skepticism these days. I love them both. Check out http://www.quackwatch.org/ by Stephen Barrett and Martin Gardner.

  32. “after translating the dreams of 47 dreamers, you’ll realize that this is really a scientific work, because it is based on facts and real treatments.”

    If you’re measuring success by results, there are thousands of people being successfully treated using lithium and valproate to a stage where they have no symptoms – leading to a theory that bipolar disorder may be due to dysregulation of the wnt of PI3K pathways.

    People can read about the effectiveness of the medication, and the theories behind why it works, on pubmed.

    Whereas you do not have peer-reviewed data. You have a small sample of people you claim to have helped. Anyone can claim to have ‘cured’ a disease – look at the number of websites saying they have a ‘cure’ to cancer that revolves around certain foods/exercises.

    “Charles Darwin was super attacked too, when he declared that the human being is a descendent of primates.”

    So what? It was once said the world was flat. People have theories, some are right, some are wrong. You can’t just say “well, this guy was criticized, but he was right” it’s not a comparable statement.

  33. You can only understand the value of dream messages and how the scientific translation according to my method (derived from the method discovered by Carl Jung) helps you, when you write down your dreams and you try to translate them with this method.

    And thank you for giving me the definition of what is scientific! My ebook Dream Interpretation as a Science is a scientific work exactly because I collected many dreams and biographies from more than 47 contributors on the internet, but I only used the dreams of 47, otherwise this ebook, which already is 362 pages long, would be 1000 pages longer…

    A black man represents the bad influence of the wild side and a blond woman represents a cruel part of someone’s personality. Your mother represents the anti-conscience in your dreams and your father represents your one-sided human conscience.

    Most people that appear in your dreams have a bad meaning because they represent parts of your personality, which are characterized by the influence of the wild anti-conscience.

    Now, forgive me because I won’t be able to continue answering to your attacks.

    I forgive you for being offensive, and I hope you’ll change your mind – and everyone else too, when you’ll realize that my work will help humanity get rid of terrorism and violence.

  34. They are not attacks, they are questions. But fair enough if you can’t answer those questions. I’ve been respectful and questioning. You’re taking it as an attack because you’re unable to answer the questions.

    47 accounts from the internet is not scientific. In that case I could harvest 47 comments from this blog to prove a point. And I could edit them.

    You didn’t answer why: WHY does a black man represent something bad, WHY is blondness cruelty, WHY is your mother the anti-conscious? You have no basis for this, this is just stuff that you’ve made up.

  35. Christina is the biggest mental of all. Also a massive racist, judging by her latest comment. Wikipedia what science *is*, dear.

  36. If Christina is offended by Seaneen’s comments, I can offer to offend her some more by directing her to Ben Goldacre’s website.

    Actually, why don’t we send a link to her site to him. I’m sure he’d have fun with it…

  37. Also, I gotta ask, and anyone can shed light on this for me, from Christina’s self harm blog:

    There are more than too many scientific proofs of God’s existence.

    Where?

    Also maybe one of us should be a guinea pig and try out her methods…

  38. Also, “Charles Darwin Was Super Attacked” sounds like a pop punk song written by a twelve year old. Like, OMG.

  39. “A work is scientific when we give proofs that what we do works in practice and for everyone, and has real positive results.”

    No, there is more to science than that.

    As I understand it, your clients and yourself would have to go through a trial against other treatments or no treatments at all.

    Your stats regarding your success are probably muddled due to too many other contributing factors.

    Were your clients taking medications as well as receiving “help” from you? If so, a scientist will tell you that it is probably their meds that made the difference rather than the interpretation of their dreams.

    And if you do indeed have schizophrenic clients I would hope that you haven’t said “it’s OK, now we’re doing this dream thing you can stop taking your meds” as that would be a very damaging thing to do.

    My theory is that any success you’re having is that you are being kind and attentive to a vulnerable and possibly isolated person. That’s a big part of a therapeutic relationship. Someone who is interested in dreams will be made happier by the fact that they now have someone genuinely interested in hearing them (since most people could care less about a dream someone had).

    So, by Just Being There some people will improve (though assuredly not cured).

    How long have you been practicing this dark art, anyway? To say someone is cured you would have had to have spoken to someone maybe ten, fifteen years after your interaction with them to get some insight into whether they have had relapses or not.

  40. If you want to understand why the dream symbols have the definition they do, you must read my ebook Craziness Prevention, which you receive as a bonus when you purchase the full version of Dream Interpretation as a Science.

    I’m against racism and I have defended black people many times. I even explain in the article where I mention that a black man represents the bad influence of the wild side that this translation is beyond racism.

    You are simply reading a few words of my articles and comments and using them to attack me, without reading everything from the beginning and trying to learn what I’m presenting.

    If you would read everything I write seriously, you would have all the answers you need.

    You may be enlightened reading this article:

    http://stopcuttingtoday.blogspot.com/2008/12/dream-interpretation-as-science.html

    Take care!

  41. If you want to understand why the dream symbols have the definition they do, you must read my ebook Craziness Prevention, which you receive as a bonus when you purchase the full version of Dream Interpretation as a Science.

    I’m against racism and I have defended black people many times. I even explain in the article where I mention that a black man represents the bad influence of the wild side that this translation is beyond racism.

    You are simply reading a few words of my articles and comments and using them to attack me, without reading everything from the beginning and trying to learn what I’m presenting.

    You may be enlightened reading this article:

    http://stopcuttingtoday.blogspot.com/2008/12/dream-interpretation-as-science.html

    Take care!

  42. Buy Bollocks, get Bullshit free! Be enlightened by crap I wrote myself!

  43. I feel quite sorry for Christina. We all know she can’t cure anyone and her ideas are ridiculous, but I’m not sure that she does. She clearly seems to lack any insight into her delusional beliefs. I don’t think being confronted by the ‘angry mob’ is going to help. Perhaps we should be gently trying to encourage her to seek the psychiatric help she so obviously needs.

    (Of course she could just be an unconscionable and dangerous scam artist, knowingly trying to rip off the mentally ill, in which case she should be in prison.)

  44. Christina Sponias,
    What evidence do you have to back up your claims?

  45. I told you I would stop answering to your attacks and I really won’t answer you again, because I have other things to do and you are not talking with me, you are simply looking for ways to offend me.

    It’s ok, you have the right to think whatever you wish, and I don’t feel really offended, because you are too ignorant. I simply forgive you, hoping that even if you won’t admit it now, you will change your mind after reading seriously what I write.

    If you want to understand my work really well, you have to read at least most of my articles, and not only one or two paragraphs of an article, like you are doing now.

    However, I’m sure that you won’t simply accept that you have to examine well what I write… You only want to attack me! As a matter of fact, how could you read the sample of Dream Interpretation as a Science in only a few minutes, if it is 86 pages long?

    Your attitude is completely offensive. You don’t care about finding justice, only about attacking me.

    I forgive you all for your attacks though, and I’m sure that when you’ll read well enough everything I wrote, you’ll change your mind for sure, since you’ll understand that I only say the truth, without hiding anything from you, and that I’m taking off the mask of many hypocrites with my work, for denouncing the human evilness and for showing clearly to the world that the human being needs psychotherapy indispensably.

    This is my last comment. Thank you!

  46. I’m a fast reader and I found it yesterday on your site. I have read and read everything you’ve posted. You have just gone on the defensive and failed to answer any questions. You keep repeating the same things over and over again.

    I’m not ignorant. Or, if I am, I am at least not ignorant in my beliefs- I search for the truth, and for the evidence, all of which you’ve failed to provide. So cheerio then!

  47. Ok so Christina is not coming back it appears, so she wont read this but wanted to add as the debate has got me thinking…

    Jung observes that ‘big’ dreams ‘stand out for years like spiritual landmarks, even though they may never be quite understood’ (Jung, 1946, p. 117). He was aware that dreams cannot always be interpreted. Also, individuals total life situation and personality must be considered (Bachrach and Leaff, 1978) – which Christina does not appear to do making such sweeping generalisations about dream interpretation.

    Jung has an essentially humanistic approach to the psyche assuming that it is the individual who is in the driving seat towards self actualisation, rather than the ‘control’ of the interpretation resting with the therapist. The goal is not for the therapist to impose their thoughts or answers onto the client. Or to put it another way ‘the analyst must allow the analysed to have his or her own experience of analysis’ (Fordham, 1957)

    Christina says that ‘I discovered the meaning of many dream symbols that Jung could not explain by analyzing the dream symbols contained in my own literature’, but I think she is missing the point – Jung was open to the opinion that not all dreams could be interpreted, and it was personal significance that was important – so not just her sysmbolism. She also says ‘in order to prove in my book that his method of dream interpretation was correct…’ again missing the point – the goal of the scientific method is not to ‘prove’ anything, but to investigate phenomena. It is impossible to prove anything. To ‘prove’ her method worked she would have to analyse every dream of every person in the world!

    If Christina has been ‘continuing Jung’s research’ I would be interested in hearing which academic psychological journals she has published in? I can’t seem to find her in any peer reviewed journals. And this is what happens in peer reviewed journals, the author has to defend their work – not because they are being ‘attacked’ or that critics are ‘offending’ but part of the scientific method is to be rigorous, to justify your work and to be transparent…

    As for ‘discovering the cure for schizophrenia, psychosis, neurosis, depression and other mental illnesses’ I’m not even going to get started..!

    A great blog Seaneen, thank you for your insightful, witty commentary on life. Din’t mean to write quite this much!!

  48. Seaneen: I was saying “these witch doctors” in a very broad sense (“this kind of non-evidence-based medicine”): when I had cancer a couple of friends of family friends that were into “alternative medicine” tried to come up with all sorts of “alternative” explanations for my illness. One of them was a psychologist, by the way: which has made me wary of psychoanalysis (after some time, and recently coupled with the realisation that if she was such a good psychologist she should have at least had a clue on my bipolar disorder).

    By the way: the more I think about my feelings towards these people (as I am reading this post and its comments), though, the more I realise I blame them because I don’t want to blame myself for listening to them (which I did, for some time – especially the psychologist).

  49. Schizophrenia means “split mind”, but that’s not “split personality”.

    THANK YOU. I don’t know where this concept of schizophrenia being the same as dissociative identity disorder came from and/or both of them meaning the person afflicted is a danger to society, but it needs to stop. Clearly, this woman isn’t helping anything. Reading through the crap she wrote was so infuriating. I really cannot understand how people like her sleep at night (ha ha, get it?)

    Btw, I pay close attention to my dreams all the time, but guess what? I’m still crazy! Oh, damn, I guess I’m doing it wrong then😦😦

  50. Dear Friends,

    I just had a bath and now I’m going to have dinner. It’s quite late here in Athens where I am, but I don’t want to abandon you this way.

    Perhaps Seaneen needs my help, since he is depressed. I will tell you what: I didn’t expect to be attacked today and to have to give you my answers, but if you wish, I can answer to all your questions gradually.

    I have even a better idea: you can post your dreams and biography and let me translate your dreams for you, so that you may see how dream interpretation according to the scientific method discovered by Jung and simplified by me works in practice.

    I keep saying that this method belongs to Jung because he discovered the main dream symbols and how to translate the dream language, but I had to disagree with his final conclusions, following my own path.

    If you wish, Seaneen, you can send me your dreams and biography privately so that you won’t be exposed, and simply show to the public the result of my translations and psychotherapy, or even, don’t show anything to the public, but simply find health and happiness this way.

    support@scientificdreaminterpretation.com

  51. You’re clearly not reading me closely, I’m a woman.

    I may actually do that- the thing is, you can very easily read this blog and find out a lot about me. It’s not exactly fair, is it? There’s a wealth of knowledge on me here, so your response could be biased. You also know from the title here that I have manic depression (or bipolar) and I think, in the interests of science, such a thing should be omitted from a biography if you claim to know so much about someone from their dreams.

    Would you accept anyone else taking you up on the offer? Maybe one of my readers would like to do so?

  52. Forgive me because I didn’t have time to read your blog in details… I just read a few phrases, while doing many other things in the internet. As I told you, I didn’t expect to be attacked today and have to care about this matter… everything happened too quickly.

    Whoever wishes to may send me their dreams, no problem. Or better saying, the only problem is that I may delay translating your dreams if they are too many because this takes time… If you’ll send me only a short dream I will translate it automatically.

    Your biography is very important, so don’t forget to send me a few details about you and your life.

    Also, if you remember what had happened to you the day before you saw the dream, tell me what you remember.

    As far as my expressions, forgive me if my English is not so perfect. I have an editor for my articles and ebooks, because English is my third language.

    I charge the detailed dream translation and the fast dream interpretation at my site, because too many people send me their dreams for translation and I wouldn’t have time for anything else if I would translate them entirely free of charge… but for you I will translate them without payment, since you spent so much time caring about my work; however, you have to be patient because I have many other things to do, besides caring for your dreams.

  53. Okay, Christina, thanks for taking the time to respond.

    I have someone who is willing to take you up on your offer of free, short dream translation, on the condition that they post it here, on this blog as a comment and not directly to you, so there’s open discourse.

    Also, I’m not actually sure where the value is in this because I wasn’t questioning if you interpret dreams but you entire set of methods which are baseless and your exaggerated claims, which are even more baseless. You still haven’t clarified anything or actually answered any questions put to you, so although interesting for you to “translate” h dream, it may be pointless and I feel that, without answering questions or just directing us to links that say the same thing, then we have a cyclical argument that we may as well not continue.

  54. Ok, I agree. I only wanted to protect you because if you’ll tell me your biographical details you will be exposed in public. But if you don’t mind, for me there is no problem. Besides that, the person (or people) who will submit their dreams and biography don’t need to give me their real name. You may post anonymously.

    Many people don’t feel comfortable when talking about their past, traumas and sad experiences… what is quite comprehensible. This is why I mentioned the possibility of a private translation.

  55. Oh reading the comments here has being so much fun. Thanks for this Seaneen.

    Reminds me of Ted …

  56. I really wish people would stop personalising attacks. Referring to people as ‘like 12 year olds’, saying their photos are ‘scary’, and calling them ‘mental’ is not only completely unnecessary and rude, it gives those attacked exactly the sort of ammunition they need to dismiss the opinions of others as irrational.

    Keeping it seemly and logical, people. Anything else is counterproductive.

  57. I agree, I should have moderated the comments, really.

  58. This is my first post so first off, thank you Seaneen for this blog of awesomeness. You and your readers and most of those that comment are truly paying homage, not only to those that are currently too ill to comment, but those fragile, beautiful, sensitive souls who have been claimed far too soon by this wretched illness.

    As for Christina Sponias, please stop taking advantage of and making filthy lucre off of those of us that are afflicted with something that you have repeatedly demonstrated that you have less than zero comprehension of. Wrapping yourself in the clothes of brilliant icons like Jung and Darwin doesn’t automatically give you their credibility, in fact it discredits you even further. I’ll take Jung to show you what I mean, since his field of study is “closer” to yours. Jung, from the admittedly little that I know, took people as he found them. He was so non-judgemental that he was able to maintain friendships with both his Jewish colleagues and his pro-Nazi colleagues in Germany, right up until WWII started despite the fact that his sympathies were against the Nazis – as expressed in his 1936 essay “Wotan” in which he described Germany as “infected…rolling towards perdition”. Your use of the words “violent”, “immoral”, “cruel”, “…like a wild animal”, “totally insensitive”, “…without feeling the pain he is provoking in others”, “craziness”, “…acquire a human personality, even though they cannot recuperate their destroyed human conscience”, “…you forget your moral principles” and “…cold indifference to human suffering” when describing us unfortunate souls (and I lump all mental illnesses together because they are all equally horrific for the sufferer) seems to demonstrate that you might be a tad judgemental of others. The categorization of those that disagree with or question you as being “offensive” or “attacking” you seems to suggest that you might have very little time for dissenting viewpoints. That’s far from the man you claim to follow, who was downright acrobatic towards others’ viewpoints, where you seem to show yourself to be brittle, petty and inflexible towards dissenting viewpoints.

    As far as Carl Jung goes it is my opinion that you are completely bastardizing the man and his legacy. Your theories, if anything appear to be derived from Freud whose id was described as: “the impulsive, child-like portion of the psyche that operates on the ‘pleasure principle’ and only takes into account what it wants and disregards all consequences”. Compare that with: “…their primitive self, which is violent, immoral, and cruel, like a wild animal.” which is how you define your wild conscience or anti-conscience and I think even you’ll agree that they’re somewhat similar. Where Jung’s “mother archetype” represents a nurturing figure without which the helpless infant cannot survive, you say that seeing your mother in your dreams represents your anti-conscience. Jung’s “shadow” appears to be the closest thing to your anti-conscience. It is defined as the “dark side” of the ego and it is amoral and therefore neither good nor bad, just like animals. It just does what it does. Again, compare that with “…their primitive self, which is violent, immoral, and cruel, like a wild animal.” and there is no comparison. All you need to do is look at the juxtaposition of the words amoral (non-judgemental) and immoral (judgemental) to see how far you’ve strayed from Jung’s theories.

    Then there is the matter of the dreams of the 47 dreamers representing a “scientific” study. Two words come to mind: SAMPLE SIZE (sorry to yell, but I’m no HTML whiz and I don’t know how to make it stand out any other way). There’s also the matter of a double-blind and controlling for all the variables there might be between patients, such as: 1) were they on medication? 2) were they receiving other treatments concurrently? etc. Without these attributes a study cannot be called “scientific”, but rather anecdotal. There is nothing wrong with anecdotal studies provided the person conducting them labels them as such and does not insist on calling them scientific.

    The great Abram Hoffer, who along with Linus Pauling and others founded Orthomolecular Medicine has done studies with diet and mega-doses of vitamins in schizophrenics, which are far more scientific then yours can ever pretend to be and he would never call them anything but anecdotal. He would also probably never subject schizophrenics to horrible diets or mega-doses of water pills (or placebo, if you will), in order to gain that “scientific” “double blind” status because well that would be cruel. Over his extensive career, he has done great work and helped many schizophrenics return to health, but he would never dare say that his studies were anything other than anecdotal because he is a true scientist and he knows the difference.

    As for: “I delayed 19 years to present my work to the public exactly because I knew that I needed to give you all the answers.” and “…even though you didn’t accept the truth”, you are treading on dangerous messianic ground here. I don’t personally believe in God, but I feel pretty comfortable in saying that if He/She/It did exist He/She/It would be the only source of THE truth. This gobble-dee-gook is your truth NOT the truth. No one human being has access to “all the answers” or “the truth”. By our very definition we are fallible and therefore we cannot know “all the answers” or “the truth”. Your use of the words: “immoral”, “craziness”, “…destroyed human conscience”, “…cold indifference to human suffering”, and particularly “demon” to describe me and those that I care about is deeply insulting and in fact comes pretty close to what I would call hate for lack of a better term, as does your laying blame on the patient if they fail to get better from your “methods”. Your use of the word “sinner” in a dream interpretation in one of the above comments makes me wonder if you are some sort of evangelical religious type passing themselves off as a follower of Jung or Darwin when it’s convenient. There’s nothing wrong with being religious, provided you don’t position yourself as God and pass judgement on your fellow human beings. C’mon down off your pedestal and maybe you’ll be able to see the wonderful aspects to your fellow, fallible human beings instead of condemning and dwelling on our “monstrous, primitive, violent” nature.

    Humbly Yours,

    A violent animal, without human feelings, whose human side has been invaded by a true demon and is full of absurd ideas, feelings and sensations, who has gradually lost the notion of what he is doing and who has forgotten his moral principles, lost all meaning in life, accepted immorality, and gradually forgotten who he is. Or I could just say just your garden variety bi-polar, but that’s so boring,

    Tom Jackson

  59. This is quite literally beneath pretty much everyone. She’s clearly a complete and utter fucking idiot but that’s got to be enough for everyone. As an individual, aside from what she is unwittingly representing here, she is already punished, or lacking, or destined to live a pitiful, empty, deluded life, or however you want to classify it, by the clearly defined edges to the limits of her imagination and knowledge and so on. Picking holes in her schtick and attacking her logic head-on is embarrassingly easy and thus a waste of everyone’s efforts. It really is. Is it just like ripping the shit out of the special needs kid or what? Basically everyone here thinks this woman is full of shit, but she’s a drop in the ocean, part of a bigger problem, and certainly one of the lesser drones. There are people peddling this same shit who have an actual brain (Like for example they can differentiate between the sexes) and who can be convincing and who almost certainly don’t actually believe in their product but push it anyway because there’s always going to be ‘suckers’. Some people will fall for it but unfortunately that’s just the way it goes. Are we all going attack perfume commercials tomorrow? Because they present a false, absurdly fucked up, reality too don’t they? It’s seen as some kind of especially evil thing to go after the vulnerable but whether you’re mentally solid as a rock or not somebody is going to go after you with bullshit up their sleeves. We’re all vulnerable in one way or another and there will always be someone waiting in the shadows to exploit that. ‘This is the thing you need to be complete’ they say with your achilles’ heel in their crosshairs and this freak is just playing this particular angle like countless other cunts. From word one she’s ridiculous and thick (She’s so over the top and shit that she reads like a parody of this kind of person), but there’s no changing that. There’s a way of spreading the word about this sort of thing, as has been demonstrated countless times on this very website, that doesn’t involve going after such a painfully easy target. Anyway, I’m all over the shop and genuine apologies if this has done everything Bonsai was talking about in terms of being counterproductive and irrational. I think it’s anything but, but each to their own (And in terms of giving her ammunition, what difference does it make when she’s firing from a position that’s so very, very wrong?). If anyone’s interested there is a fourteen thousand word version of this comment that uses flowery, round-the-houses language to ultimately make the same overall point but unfortunately it’s only available as an ebook. Night x

  60. I kind of agree now, I think it’s become cyclical and I know it’s one random person, but it’s still interesting to see how some people peddle their wares and their attitudes and “i’m right”ness.

  61. Christina should have stopped posting earlier I think …

    Bit of advice though – If you want to get respect from those you claim to be trying to ‘cure’ please don’t use the words you do. You have no right to brand someone with words like ‘immoral’ and ‘craziness’, particularly if it’s clear you don’t know what they are going through. We feel bloody bad enough without eejits like you associating us with wild animals …

  62. Hi seaneen,

    This is hilarious, she has spent 19 years ‘researching’ this and you have decimated her findings in one stroke. HA!

    xxx

  63. @Christina

    A black man represents the bad influence of the wild side and a blond woman represents a cruel part of someone’s personality. Your mother represents the anti-conscience in your dreams and your father represents your one-sided human conscience.

    Yes! I completely understand that black men are uncontrollable savages and women are the walking embodiment of evil and wanton lusts!

    And yes, the fact that you’ve said you’re not being racist or sexist is indeed irrefutable proof that you’re not! I think that nice Mr Nick Griffin offers similar irrefutable proof.

    Oh, by the way, do you have an e-book? I think you might, but we haven’t heard any mention of it.

  64. Christina, I think Seaneen mentioned to me once that she has had a number of dreams in which she’s in Ireland. Just out of curiosity, what does the symbolism of Ireland in Seaneen’s deams mean?

  65. Things like this really rile me. I must preface this my saying that a certain form of therapy has worked wonders for me. I no longer experience bi-polar symptoms. That said, I would not make the claim that the same therapy would work for everyone who tried it, only those who engages it 100% because the approach works for them. If one method of therapy does not work for you, then it certainly shouldn’t be forced on you with proclamations that you are wrong for not accepting it!

    Secondly, claiming to “cure” any condition opens you to a universe of legal problems. You can never claim to cure anyone. You can say that the human body and mind is capable of healing itself, and you can help that process and alleviate symptoms. I consider myself to be free of bi-polar symptoms. Perhaps bi-polar is caused by a physical condition, a scar on the brain, or some imbalance I had. Who knows? If I’m symptom free, am I cured, or simply working around it? Therapy did it for me. A certain drug might do it for someone else. And I can’t tell anyone that drugs won’t work for them and therapy will, just as I shouldn’t be told that therapy won’t work and drugs will.

    Lastly, it’s obvious that Christina doesn’t respect her clients. “You need my help!” indeed. Yes, let’s all force our own brand of therapy and model of the world on others. That’ll help them change, I’m sure! Well, maybe not. Christina forgets that the mind is naturally a highly moral thing. And everyone has different morals.

  66. Dear Friends,

    I tried to answer to a few of your questions in the form of an interview.

    I can of course also answer to all your questions one by one, but please, make one question at the time and wait for my answer, because you are bombarding me with your questions and offenses, without giving me the chance to explain you anything.

    Besides that, you are many, while I am only one…

    Patience, my friends!

    I can explain you whatever you wish. I don’t play with your mental health and I know what I’m talking about. If you had sad experiences before, you shall not attack me for that. I’m different, because I’m not a doctor that has a diploma and followed the pattern of today’s medicine, I’m a literature writer who had to become a doctor. This was an obligation for me, after everything I discovered in the human psyche.

    Wish I didn’t have any obligation, and I could only write poems… but I learned too much translating dreams.

    Here is my article, answering to a few of your questions:

    http://mentalhealthforlife.blogspot.com/2008/12/interview-value-of-scientific-method-of.html

  67. @Christina: OK, I’ve read your article over on your Mental Health for Life blog and now I think I understand everything and I beg you to please get the qualified professional help it appears that you so obviously and desperately need. Please, please, please do not try to “help” anyone else before you help yourself. The people that you’re trying to help are very vulnerable and you could bring great harm to them. This is not therapy, it is the blind leading the blind and I cannot possibly overstate the danger you’re putting the very people that you’re trying to help in. Please get help. Thankyou.

    @Paul: I realize that you and I can sit around and easily poke holes in her schtick big enough to drive a truck (I’m in Canada) or a lorry through. That’s not the point. The point is that there are some people out there who might be really vulnerable or desperate at this point. Desperate enough to fall for this schtick. Desperation can make you do things you wouldn’t ordinarily do and get sucked in by things you wouldn’t ordinarily get sucked in by. Therefore, I would say these “theories” don’t need to “have holes poked in them”, they need to be eviscerated, annihilated and shown to be the empty, hollow sorcery that they truly are, so that nobody has the misfortune of handing over their money to this poor, ill poser. The more people that post reasoned, well thought out arguments against her “work” while keeping the personal attacks down to a dull roar, the more she will be discredited on this site and the less likely anyone reading this site who’s feeling desperate will get taken. That’s my personal reason for going after her.

  68. @Christina: You’re putting yourself in a very dangerous legal and ethical position by claiming you have the cure for every mental illness.

  69. Also, Christina, statements like “I’m a literature writer who had to become a doctor” put you on dangerous legal and ethical ground too.

    I don’t know what the law is in Greece, but in the UK impersonating a medical doctor is a criminal offence.

  70. Dear Friends,

    I claim that the unconscious mind that produces our dreams is the best existent doctor and can cure any mental illness. I am only a dream translator: I translate the guidance of the wise unconscious mind that cures everyone, and I help everyone understand this guidance and put it in practice.

    And I can prove you that it does cure everyone, and helps everyone solve all their problems.

    Someone was supposed to give me a dream and biography for translation today, so that I could show you in practice how the scientific method of dream interpretation really reveals you everything you must learn in order to understand all your mistakes and solve all the problems of your life.

    I spent a lot of my time trying to explain you everything you wanted to learn.

    Instead of attacking me, you should feel grateful because I sacrificed my life in order to find the cure for all mental illnesses that cannot be cured by today’s psychiatry, even though I’m not a psychiatrist, because I understood which my responsibility was, since I discovered so much translating dreams.

    I studied a lot and I cured many people for 19 years, without caring about receiving anything back from my sacrifice. I only wanted to find real mental health that lasts for life. I was not a psychiatrist who cared more about my position and the profits I would have, then about my research, about the real truth and about really helping desperate people.

  71. Christina, you seem to be coming across as a martyr. Not least because you’re broadcasting to all and sundry that you’re being “attacked” when in fact for the most part, you are being questioned respectfully.

    If you are not medically or otherwise qualified then you are not a doctor. I could study sociology from textbooks for 19 days and make my own theories, it doesn’t make me a professor of sociology. And in my reading and my personal experience of bipolar disorder, I know more than your average person and have some skill in recognising symptoms but I would never dare say I could diagnose or treat someone with bipolar disorder because it would be obscenely irresponsible of me to do so.

    As for the dream interpretation, as I said yesterday, I’m not sure there’s a point to anyone posting one here for you. I asked you to explain WHY such and such means this or that- such as why a blonde woman is cruel, and you didn’t explain anything. Therefore, if you’re just pulling random “interpretations” out of the air, with no scientific basis or otherwise, your dream interpretations can simply be constructed according to your own bias. Since you never explain why something represents something, you could, in fact say, “a blue ball represents your hatred”, with no real explanation as to WHY it does.

    Therefore whoever’s dreams you’re interpreting is not getting anything from you since you can twist all symbolism into your own subjective “interpretations”. So it’s a worthless exercise for one of my readers to post a dream- it will just say more about you than about them.

    Your interview makes me feel sorry for you as you’ve obviously been through a lot- I would suggest you work on your own mental health and leave other’s well alone.

    That said, I think we should draw this discussion to a close now.

  72. You are not paying attention to what you read. I explained you that the unconscious mind that produces our dreams is a natural doctor and that what I do is to translate its messages with precious guidance and help the dreamers put this guidance in practice.

    And the translation is not subjective but very objective. Anyone can learn how to translate their dreams using the same method because the dream symbols are specific, they don’t change from person to person or from dream to dream.

    There are of course many other symbols that can be translated only depending on the biography of the dreamer, but you can learn how to do that too, because this is not a subjective translation but a real comprehension of what the unconscious mind that produces the dreams is teaching the dreamer.

    If you’ll read all my articles looking for knowledge instead of looking for points through which you could attack me, you would understand that you should use the knowledge I offer you as a tool that will help you find your mental health and happiness and feel grateful because I’m sharing this knowledge with you.

    I’m not going to spend more time with this matter, since you don’t want to find out all the benefits you have through dream interpretation, you don’t care about verifying how real the psychotherapy of the unconscious mind is; you simply want to offend me, without analyzing anything.

    I accept your decision if you don’t feel like continuing, because I can prove you that the unconscious mind is the very best doctor you could find, a doctor that surpasses all the existent experts in our world.

    However, you prefer to close your eyes in front of what I’m showing you…

    It’s ok, you have this right. This is your blog.

    Nice meeting you and all your friends!

  73. As with everyone else, with the exception of Christina, I am appalled at all of this. I am speechless. I’m wondering if anyone has noticed that on one of Christina’s websites (http://www.booksirecommend.com/) she claims in her header that she is a psychologist. Below her name is “Psychologist and Writer”. Is this not highly unethical and illegal? Everywhere else in her literature she clearly states she has no formal medical training. I worry about the poor souls who are in such need for help and hit her site that they actually believe that she is an accredited psychologist. In my worst moments I have felt so desperate and out of control that I do see how I could get sucked into something along these lines (if only for a brief moment before some semblance of clarity returned to me) and seeing an “accreditation” below her name on such a website would definitely aid in my getting sucked in. Is there no professional body (I’m assuming in Greece) that could be contacted with regard to this blatant attempt to claim credibility where none exists?

  74. I am a psychologist and I can prove that. However, I’m doctor B – doctor A is the wise unconscious mind who produces our dreams. My work is much more serious and responsible than the work of many supposed doctors and I give scientific proof in my ebooks.

    Besides that, I don’t say that I’m doctor Sponias, as I should do because I really am, while there are more than too many people on the internet that use this title without having any knowledge.

    Everyone can learn everything I know and immediately verify that the unconscious mind that produces our dreams is a real genius who can cure anyone.

    But I’m not going to answer to your attacks anymore. You don’t want to discover the truth: you simply want to insist on your attacks.

    I don’t really think I could see you recognizing that you were wrong for attacking me and feeling grateful because thanks to my work for so many years you can easily learn what the unconscious mind teaches you in your own dreams, so that you may fight against your wild side and become a balanced and happy human being.

    Never mind, you don’t need to recognize anything in public. I understand that you are not able to admit your mistakes and instead of fighting with me, try to learn more about the miraculous scientific dream interpretation. But do that, even without admitting anything right now.

    I don’t need your apologies; I automatically forgive you for all your attacks. Read my free articles and ebooks silently, and receive all the benefits you can have translating your own dreams, without paying anything to anyone, and without going anywhere.

    This is free private psychotherapy for you, and it lasts for as long as you live, since the unconscious mind keeps sending you dream messages, what means that you’ll always have the help of the unconscious wisdom in your life. You only have to learn the dream language and put in practice the lessons you receive.

    This is really my last comment in this blog. I won’t even open this page again, because I have many other things to do and I already gave you all the explanations you were asking me to.

  75. I’m having entirely too much fun reading this. It’s my last post, and this time I really mean it!

  76. Comment, even. Stupid Alex is stupid.

  77. “And I can prove you that it does cure everyone, and helps everyone solve all their problems.”

    Srsly?

    So not just mental illness but also debt, spousal abuse and that leaking tap in the kitchen?

    This is remarkable. We shouldn’t be putting this person down as they are clearly better than God. God’s a bit rubbish really. Our tap has been leaking for ages and he’s been no help whatsoever.

  78. […] will probably have already read Mentally Interesting: The Secret Life of a Manic Depressive’s superb destruction of a New Age quack. Also worth reading on her blog this week are her comments on the stigma of mental illness. Take […]

  79. I came back today to see what had happened here…

    Here is an article I wrote for you:

    The Crucial Meaning of Dreams – Dream Language and Logic – Free Psychotherapy for Life

    http://stopcuttingtoday.blogspot.com/2008/12/crucial-meaning-of-dreams-dream.html

    I’m going to write many articles, giving you lessons. Follow my blogs. Besides Stop Cutting Today and Mental Health for Life that you already know, go to http://scientificdreaminterpretation.blogspot.com and http://loveandreasoning.blogspot.com and read more articles, so that you may understand the value of dream messages. They are constantly protecting you.

    As a matter of fact, I already wrote more than 550 articles and three free ebooks that you can read today if you wish, but with the spirit of a student who is trying to learn something valuable, so that you may discover all the benefits you can have.

    Our discussion here was very interesting.

    Thank you for caring about discovering the truth and for criticizing my work, so that I could see what a few people don’t understand about what I’m teaching you. I will give you specific lessons with clearer explanations in my next articles.

  80. Christina, I don’t dream… what does that mean?

  81. Hi Kate!

    Fortunately I remembered to come back here…

    Many people tell me that they never see any dream, but the truth is that they don’t remember their dreams. Everybody sees around 5 dreams per night. All of them explain the same things, in different ways, through different angles, etc.

    The dream language is obscure and incomprehensible to our human conscience because the wise unconscious mind that sends us protective dream messages must hide them from the wild side of our conscience that wants to destroy our humanity, since it is violent. This is why you must learn the dream language in order to understand the messages you receive.

    Pat attention to your dreams, having in mind that the dream messages are very important, otherwise you won’t remember anything.

    If you don’t give them real value and when wake up you think about what you have to do or other matters, you won’t be able to remember your dreams later. You have to think about them when you wake up and keep them in your conscious memory.

    When you have the time, you shall write them. If you can write them immediately, this is better, because you will remember all the details that later you usually forget.

    Many people that started dream therapy telling me they never remembered any dream, in a while started relating me at least three dreams per day, and I had to find a method to translate many dreams at the same time, because they were too many and we couldn’t meet each other everyday or talk through the phone, so their dreams would be accumulated during the week… But think about that: everyone begins without remembering anything and ends up relating me so many dreams that I have no time to translate them…

    This is why I prefer to teach you how to translate your dreams alone. The dream language is simply a different language, like Spanish and French. When you learn it, then you can start learning the most important part: the lessons given by the wise unconscious mind protecting you from your anti-conscience and helping you develop completely your human side. This is how you will become more intelligent, self-confident, balanced, sensitive and happy.

    Care about your dreams, and you will remember them without a doubt!

    Start writing down whatever you remember. Just an object, a face, whatever. The next day you’ll see that you will remember much more.

    Read my articles especially at http://scientificdreaminterpretation.blogspot.com where I give you free lessons about how to translate your dreams, dream symbols, etc. You have to look for the articles with more information, but I really teach you how to translate your dreams – until certain point at least.

    And, of course, take your copy of the Sample of my ebook Dream Interpretation as a Science, with basic lessons about dream images, the dream language and logic, and how to translate short dreams.

    Have a nice week!

  82. Christina, I have read both your ebooks and blogs and am still unsure how to make some connections. I have just woken up and tried to remember what I dreamt about… except I cannot remember. Also, once I have decoded my dreams what do I do. As in, well, if I figure out it means I’m a rubbish person, then surely it’s just going to beat me up further than actually do any good?

  83. How many times is this woman going to say “I’m not posting here anymore” and then come back?

    Mr Man says she sounds like a troll, and I have to agree.

    And how is “seeing a black man in your dreams is bad” not racist? What if you are actually black and live in a black community? Surely you would dream about people that you are familiar with – who are black? Just to be clear – this isn’t actually a question aimed at Christina.

    Has anyone noticed that this martyrs name begins with Christ? Ooh…

  84. I ditto Mr Man. I really don’t understand how this can work. There is no evidence. I can interpret my dreams one way, she another, then use it to beat myself up with. Hooray? I have tried to understand what is going on in her head, but unfortunately this makes no sense.

  85. I think she’s a lower form of life than a troll. She’s a spammer who doesn’t know when enough is enough.

  86. Mr Man Says:

    “The two methods Christina has employed to sell her ebook – that of stirring up controversy to generate interest, and preying on people’s vulnerabilities – are two of the oldest dirty sales tricks in the book, and a true professional wouldn’t stoop that low.”

  87. Dear Kate,

    Your dreams will show you gradually all the mistakes you make so that you may correct them.

    There are specific dream symbols through which everyone can translate their dreams the same way, but there are also several symbols that can be translated depending on the dreamer’s biography.

    You can learn this method and translate not only your own dreams, as well as everybody’s dreams the same way.

    Dear Mr Mans wife,

    I said I would not come back because you were only attacking me. Now that you are talking with me (some of you at least) I have no problem on coming here and answering to your questions, one by one.

    About the black man, I have to explain you again that most people that appear in our dreams have a bad meaning because they represent parts of our personalities that belong to the wild side of our conscience. The same way that a black man represents the bad influence of the wild side, a blonde man represents a cruel part of someone’s personality.

    I’m against racism and I have defended black people since I was a child. In Brazil, where I am from, black people were slaves at the time that this country belonged to the Portuguese. The terrible experiences that black people had due to the cruelty of the white men proved me that the human being really has an evil origin!

    Dear Tom,

    I am not a spammer: I was attacked and I am explaining you how wrong you are, and I’m doing this because I can prove you that everything I’m teaching you will help you find health, balance and happiness if you follow my directions with seriousness.

    Dear Mr Mans wife,

    I am not trying to sell my ebooks here. As a matter of fact, you should understand that I have cured many people for 19 years entirely free of charge, as charity. If I would tell you in details how many people I have helped in my life and which their problems were, you would feel ashamed for attacking me, but I’m not going to do that.

    If I cared about selling my ebooks only because I wanted to make money, I wouldn’t write ebooks about mental health. I would write beautiful poems and romances, which are pleasant, and make a lot of money without suffering.

    Now, I believe that our conversation will never have a “happy end” because you are too offensive and no matter what I may tell you, you will attack me again.

    Never mind, I forgive you for that. I understand you have wrong ideas and impressions. Some day you may understand your mistakes.

    I’m used on facing attacks, because what I say is unpleasant: I say that the human being is a monster who has to learn how to be calm, patient and good, what enters in contradiction with the selfish and materialistic spirit of our time.

    Happy Christmas holidays!

  88. I’ve had enough of this.

    Christina, thanks for your input but you’re just repeating yourself and this discussion is just going round in circles.

    I don’t want to close comments on this post but for now I’m putting your e-mail on moderation so should you comment again it must be approved by me. It’s not a slight- it’s just to stop this pointless cycling. Otherwise we’re just going to carry on and on with this.

    People, write away on the subject of pseudoscience but I think Christina has said all she can.

  89. This woman makes the rest of us look sane. But I agree with the people above who are concerned about the vulnerable people she may be influencing.

  90. […] the gold standard for mental health user blogging. She’s also recently done a sterling job of ripping a New Age quack to shreds. It’s my experience that if you get told by a 4′11″ pink-haired Irish girl, you […]

  91. thanks for ur good info. to me.

  92. I personally have gotten my dreams translated by Sponias. She is a sincere, gentle woman who has helped me! She is extremely generous. She has given me free e-books because of my curiosity. What is a doctor? Why does a diploma or written paper declare you are knowledgeable and an expert. I have been in situations where I have met with plain stupid doctors! For one my older sister was diagnosed with some sickness that was supposed to last 48 hrs. She gave her the wrong medicine. It turned out she had pneumonia. My first hand experience was when I had a medical procedure done, the doctor gave me celebrex for my severe pain. She was an idiot, I needed Percaset, I changed to a more experienced doctor which made me stronger and heal so much faster. A diploma is what a piece of paper like money that can be burned and thrown away. An expert has experience and practice. Sponias has both. Everyone’s comments were rude. They were not questions of curiosity and eagerness to lean her methods. Most people do not believe in God because humans cannot see Him. So we say He does not exist. BUT there are so many individuals as well as me who have faith and believe in God because we are not ignorant wasting our time trying to find evidence that there is a God. Science cannot explain miracles, science cannot explain love or emotions. Science cannot explain who I AM! LIfe is more to science. Life is experiencing first hand. Sponias did eligible research and discovered interesting information. Her intentions is not money! That is far from her mind. Sponias only wants to help people. If you disagree that is only your opinion. Stop attacking her, you are being extremely abusive. I KNOW that she is not giving the proof you need because with every answer there is a WHY?? It is just like there is no exact proof God exists, as an individual I believe because God answers me in so many ways. God has given me life and hope. Dreams are so complex and mysterious. You must be the one to say if your dreams have meaning or not. Obviously Seaneen you find dreams interesting because you are making such a big deal out of them. You are always trying to find evidence, proof. The most precious things in life can not have proof through science. It takes a greater person to be humble putting aside ignorance to be able to capture the beauty and precious gifts of life. To understand the gift of dreams you need humility.

    OBSERVER

  93. @OBSERVER *:

    If Sponias has done research then I would like to read it. Please cite references to credible journals in which she has published. If those journals require a fee to view the article, then please post a link to a pre-print server where I may find, at least, a draft copy of said article(s).

    To be an expert, one must have two things. Namely, education and experience/skill. The former is that piece of paper. Admittedly, a few people can fly under the radar. But, the likeliness of this happening gets lower and lower as the amount of education required increases. So, if someone has a Ph.D., then the likeliness that they are competent is exceedingly high, a Masters is lower, but still very good. Though, a Bachelor’s degree should not be trusted outright. That degree is more to show perseverance and a base-line of knowledge for continuance than anything else. That isn’t to say that people with Bachelor’s degrees can’t be competent. It’s just that what they say should be taken with caution until they are known to be competent. People without any of the above need to provide copious amounts of proof that they know what they are talking about. Otherwise, they should be ignored and possibly ridiculed if they persist.

    The latter is something that is partially gained while getting the former. But, after that degree is earned, then one must continue to work under supervisors to understand how things work, etc, etc, etc. This is why the people get better with time. Well, a lot do, but some either don’t or get worse because of any number of reasons (e.g. not keeping up). Please don’t confuse that with a degree/experience/skill from accredited institutions doesn’t mean much/anything.

    All of this is very necessary to understand the whole. Applying this to therapy, the student will learn appropriate and proven effective techniques, how to properly apply them, proper ethical conduct, proper research and its conduct, etc, etc, etc. Similarly for any number of other disciplines.

    Basically, if you don’t “pay your dues” then you can be, and should be, considered suspect.

    NOTE: I’ll also point out that people can just break. I’ve known a couple Profs in my day that have burned out, or snapped, or whatever. As a result, they aren’t the person they were and in fact, most of those were people to avoid if you wanted a good education. It happens. People aren’t perfect. We do break from time to time. And it can happen to anyone.

    Btw, celebrex is a valid choice for pain relief after a procedure in the short term. Just because it didn’t work for you or you had side-effects doesn’t necessarily mean that doctor was an idiot. People react differently to different meds and that shouldn’t be confused with incompetence.

    But, a question: What does God have to do with what is being discussed here? I’m rather at a lose on that point as what is being discussed is the veracity of Sponias’ therapy, NOT divinity.

    Also, over the years, Science has been able to explain many so called miracles. It has also disproven many by exposing charlatans. As in, just because something can’t be explained now, doesn’t mean that it will never be explained. Go ahead and google if you don’t believe me. The so called “miracle healing” is probably a good place to start.

    As a last note, I would suggest that you look up “placebo effect”.

  94. Sad and tearful? Depressed? Overwhelmed?
    Do you, or someone you know (Age 18-75) suffer from symptoms including feelings of sadness or nervousness, loss of interest or pleasure, changes in sleep or appetite, mental or physical fatigue, feelings of worthlessness, or difficulty concentrating, and has had these symptoms for two week or more and are not currently taking an antidepressant? You, or someone you know, may be eligible to participate in a clinical research study on depression. The study is through the Laboratory of Brain, Behavior, and Pharmacology at UCLA and eligible participants will be referred for clinical care and also be compensated up to $190. For more information please call (310) 825-3351 or visit http://www.DepressionLA.com

  95. […] If I learn anything I”ll let you know, at this point I”ll consider anything. Aside from dream analysis that […]

  96. Christina Sponias wrote, “Charles Darwin was super attacked too, when he declared that the human being is a descendent of primates.”

    Carl Sagan wrote, “The fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown.”

    I read Christina’s vacuous site and there was one modicum of truth. She equates dream interpretation to astrology, “dream interpretation is somewhat like astrology.”

  97. […] about atheism into the face of theists. I especially toned it down on my other blog, leaving nary but one huge rant and a few subtle links in the sidebar to give me away.  It was mostly to avoid showdowns with […]

  98. […] about atheism into the face of theists. I especially toned it down on my other blog, leaving nary but one huge rant and a few subtle links in the sidebar to give me away.  It was mostly to avoid showdowns with […]

  99. live in a dream

  100. Great post. Very interesting! I think this therapy is bullshit. A friend of mine already paid more than 1000 euros for therapy BY EMAIL?!! and he only seems to get worse. He’s not mentally stable to see that this isn’t helping him so he keeps on spending all of his money. This is pure manipulation and money making. Thanks for this post so much

  101. I’ve been researching this woman. Apparently she grew up with an abusive schizophrenic father and was subjected to a strong religious education. After she lost her faith in God as a teenager, she regained it by understanding that she was one of God’s prophets and could cure the world of all mental illness by interpreting dreams. Her blog is full of kooky-talk, some of it scary, but most of it sad, because she really believes that God has chosen her (isn’t she special!) to cure the world so that no one ever again has to suffer from a crazy person.

  102. Hi Miss Mentally Interesting🙂

    I guess I’m a bit out of date here but I’ll comment anyway.
    Actually…this “theory” of dreams by Christina Sponias has become a kinda soft obsession for me lately.

    You see… it’s the possibility of it that has me hooked amongst other things. What if what she is saying is true?

    Whether she has proved it or not is secondary. Just because something hasn’t been proved does not mean it does not exist.

    Do you believe in the possibility of what she is saying?
    Because if you do, She gives you the free-way to validate the stuff yourself. To write down your dreams and cross it with your reality and see what you find out.

    As far as I have understood her theory , she says that Dreams have a universal language with symbolism and stuff and that they follow a different form of logic. So if this is true, two basic things are different here
    1) the form of communication.. the script of the language of dreams which she says is imagery and
    2) the logic … the manner in which this info must be analyzed which she says is similar to poetry (But I don’t understand this yet). All this stuff looks vague, subtle bordering on something out of Grimm’s Fairy-Tales.

    And yet… there are patterns in the examples.
    Isn’t a major portion of Science based on observation and analysis of patterns… co-incidences… strange repetitions?

    Astrology is an accepted Science. Though most people call it vague and bordering on irrational fantasy. I mean a huge, stony planet far away in the solar system can affect how my personality turns out?!
    And yet anyone who has even remotely dabbled with it has found some truth in this. Which is why it has survived from times ancient upto now.

    What if Ms Sponias has observed patterns in people’s dreams? Patterns in her own dreams? Symbols which crop up in dreams of completely different people inexplicably linked to a certain kind of situation.. a happening in their radically different real lives? Would it not be fascinating to discover patterns like that ourselves?

    Just a thought.

    • “What if what she is saying is true?”

      Then she should do some science. She should probably start by forming a falsifiable hypothesis, assuming her ideas are even amenable to falsification.

      “Whether she has proved it or not is secondary.”

      It’s certainly not secondary if you value truth! If you want to believe anything that you find fascinating, or that flatters your beliefs or biases, then sure, the truth is secondary and doesn’t really matter. Have fun drinking that kool-aid.

      “Just because something hasn’t been proved does not mean it does not exist.”

      Sure, but this is also not grounds to accept a proposition without evidence. I mean, just because I haven’t proved that you stole $500 out of my pocket yesterday doesn’t mean you actually didn’t do it. Care to return my cash?

      “Astrology is an accepted Science.”

      No.

      “And yet anyone who has even remotely dabbled with it has found some truth in this. Which is why it has survived from times ancient up to now.”

      Yes, and you alluded to why in the sentence previous, because astrology is “vague and bordering on irrational fantasy”.

      “What if Ms Sponias has observed patterns in people’s dreams?”

      I’m sure she has observed perceived patterns. People are great at perceiving patterns, even when non exist. I can see patterns in the clouds until they form recognisable objects or faces if I look hard enough. It doesn’t follow that the perceived patterns have any objective significance.

  103. I live in a house in portland oregan 5 months.i stay all the time in the home.was a foster home.i loose my memory,was a new home.i vacum one day the home before move.they use something in the home from germany to lose mamory.

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