A lot of the medications used to treat bipolar disorder are also used in the treatment of epilepsy, notably sodium valproate, lamictal and carbamazepine (anticonvulsants).
There is some discussion in the medical community that bipolar is a form of temporal lobe epilepsy, and that the extreme mood states are in fact a form of seizure.
Here is a short study of thirteen patients with bipolar I disorder and epilepsy. There are overlaps- mood swings for a start, although it has been shown that manic episodes of bipolar I are more severe than those witnessed in temporal lobe epilepsy.
It was suggested when I was seventeen that I suffered from Temporal Lobe Epilepsy as I was experiencing psychosis. If you ever think it’s easy to be diagnosed with a mental illness, you’re wrong, it’s extremely difficult. After running through the gamut of being called an attention seeker, doctors will try to rule out other causes. For example, physical illnesses such as Multiple Sclerosis can present symptoms that need psychiatric treatment. But my symptoms overlapped with TLE. It was eventually ruled out, but you can see why they tested me.
If you look at the symptoms of TLE, they do correspond with symptoms of bipolar I disorder:
Simple partial seizures:
Simple Partial Seizures (SPS) involve small areas of the temporal lobe and do not affect consciousness. These are seizures which primarily cause sensations. These sensations may be mnestic such as déjà vu (a feeling of familiarity), jamais vu (a feeling of unfamiliarity), a specific single or set of memories, or amnesia. The sensations may be auditory such as a sound or tune, or gustatory such as a taste, or olfactory such as a smell that is not truly present. Sensations can also be visual or involve feelings on the skin or in the internal organs. The latter feelings may seem to move over the body. Dysphoric or euphoric feelings, fear, anger, and other sensations can also occur during SPS. Often, it is hard for persons with SPS of TLE to describe the feeling. SPS are often called “auras,” and are sometimes thought to be preludes to actual seizures. The latter is incorrect. SPS are seizures.
The experiences in simple partial seizures are similar to those experienced in mania- for example, hallucinations, dysphoria and euphoria, fear and anger.
Of course, do look further than wikipedia, I’m merely using that page as a summary. I have read further but wiki is good for summing things up. The page for the seizure touches on something interesting:
*amnesia around the seizure event and sometimes events which occurred before the seizure
Something rarely discussed is the cognitive impact of bipolar disorder, such as problems with memory. I experience this, and over years of episodes, my ability to recall events (especially when it comes to things that have been said) and to think clearly has been corroded. I also experience memory blanks when in episodes. I can’t clearly remember any of my manic episodes and with rapid-cycling, short manic or depressive episodes yield blanks for me.
Then there is complex partial seizures which touches on something very interesting:
Signs may include motionless staring, automatic movements of the hands or mouth, inability to respond to others, unusual speech, or unusual behaviors.
Doesn’t that sound like severe catatonic depression and the negative symptoms of schizophrenia?
The similarities end at the point of tonic-clonic seizures.
Remember that bipolar disorder I is not just experiencing severe mood swings. There is a whole host of physical and cognitive symptoms. Mania and depression both involve physical tics such as restlessness, twitching and repetive movement for mania to lack of response in depression. The brain processes things at different speeds in different mood states- too fast in mania, too slow in depression. Memory is impaired, the ability to concentrate is destroyed and at both ends of the rainbow there is psychosis.
There is also some discussion that temporal lobe epilepsy can result in hyperreligiousity, which is also a feature of mania.
Don’t overlook that these are extremely generalised symptoms, though.
So why are bipolar disorder and TLE often treated with the same medications? Something massively overlooked by those who don’t believe in mental illness is that in a lot of cases, the medication works. There is some biological basis to bipolar disorder, or else medication would have no effect. ECT would be rendered useless.
It isn’t a case of simply numbing the person. I take a combination of medication because I have just been diagnosed but my situation isn’t at all representative. Quite a lot of people take one drug- a mood stabiliser or an antipsychotic, and many people take two (those with bipolar II generally take an antidepressant and a mood stabiliser). I started at one- Lithium for mania. My secondary problem, because I experience mania often, is psychosis, so an antipsychotic was added. Then an antidepressant for depression, which was then taken away and Depakote was added for rapid-cycling. All my medications seek to stabilise me. Antidepressants can help depression. Antipsychotics can help psychosis. Antimanics can help mania.
It’s keeping a balance rather than seeking to destroy the feelings and functions of the patient. A lot of people manage to function normally on medications whereas they weren’t able to before. Some people don’t, and some people do not take medication for their illness, either out of unwillingness or because they have a mild form of bipolar disorder. However, there is always the risk that mild will become full blown. Is it behavioural or is it biological? Why does it become worse unmedicated?
The thing is, nobody knows why bipolar medication works. Lithium, one of the oldest drugs for bipolar mania, was discovered by accident and doctors still have no idea how it works. So it’s pretty obvious as to why people won’t take medication. Do you really want to put a drug in your body when you have no idea how it works? There’s more concrete evidence on the mechanics of heroin than on the mechanics of psychiatric medication.
They may be treated with similar drugs because they present similiar symptoms. However, the overlaps in no way mean that they are similiar illnesses. The symptoms of mental illness displayed in TLE are not the whole story.
However, it were proven that bipolar (and possibly even schizophrenia) were forms of epilepsy then it would revolutionise the way they are treated. Physical illnesses garner more sympathy and understanding than mental illnesses. The psychiatric symptoms of physical illnesses are unfortunate side effects of the illness, whereas when the symptoms are the unfortunate illness, the view is quite different.
For example, take the criticism people like me who write about our mental illnesses receive (just cast your eyes over the comments and I could share e-mails I get). I am told often that my illness isn’t real and that I am, as a person, flawed for having this illness. It is unlikely that if I wrote about these symptoms- and symptoms is what they are- while suffering from a physical illness that encompassed these symptoms it would be different. Because physical illnesses are provable, whereas mental illnesses are not. Therefore the physical illness will always be more credible than the mental illness.
If mental illnesses were provable and partially attributed to a biological cause like epilepsy, then the treatment of mental illness and those who have it would change drastically. People who have epilepsy aren’t viewed as burdens to society. People would finally understand that we mean it when we say that we don’t do this to ourselves. The suffering caused by it to ourselves and loved ones isn’t something we embrace and encourage. The opinion of diagnosis of mental illness as a societal tool for cataloguing and catergorising behavioural problems would be dismissed as physical illnesses do present the same symptoms. It would be nice not to be seen as psychos and fuck ups to be seen as people who have an illness that needs treatment as any other.
Filed under: anticonvulsants, antipsychotics, bipolar, depakote, depression, epilepsy, lamictal, lithium, mania, manic depression, mental illness, psychosis | Tagged: bipolar, depakote, depression, mania, manic depression, mental illness, psychosis



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I think even if they proved beyond all doubt that mental illness has a physical basis they’d still be the same amount of prejudice. Take Huntington’s disease. It has a genetic and physical basis (and amongst other things) causes ‘odd’ behaviour. Even if you explain to someone what the disease is, and it’s cause, they will still be treated as an outsider and a burden to society.
Physical illness is usually none threatening to society. I mean, epileptics do exhibit odd behaviour when they’re post ictal, diabetics can get angry and psychotic during hypers/hypos, but it isn’t lasting. It’s not something other people have to deal with all the time. What’s the worst that can happen if you’re friends with someone with heart/liver problems? An asthmatic? A migraine sufferer? Not much. But a schizophrenic, depressive, or manic depressive now there’s trouble. They can be dangerous. Their behaviour is time consuming, you never know what they’re gonna do.
But not all physical illnesses get understandment. If it’s something visible such as tics, facial deformities, or something infectious like HIV, you’re in the same realms again.
Man fears things which are different or threatening. And remember, there’s a large portion of ignorant people out there who’ll kill people over the colour of their skin because it makes them “different” – people aren’t always reasonable, physical basis of mental illness wouldn’t change a lot of peoples minds.
There’s a lot of research into links between Epilepsy and Manic Depression. Neither are well understood. They aren’t completely sure why anticonvulsants work for Epilepsy.
But to tell you the truth, in science there’s rarely certainty. Take something such as cholera. They know it’s mechanism of action, but they aren’t certain how it causes diarrhoea. And that’s been around forever. In that same example, the mechanism involves G-proteins (one of the main signalling routes) – even those they aren’t sure how they work. Yes, there are current “theories” – a cocktail of known information and bit’s they’ve theorized a mechanism for (but they know is wrong).
There’s lots more out there. Science is a mass of theories which are only as good as the current knowledge and testing equipment available. There are many, many drugs out there that they don’t know how they work, there’s just an accepted mechanism. Lithium has no “accepted” mechanism, but isn’t much more of a mystery than other drugs.
“Do you really want to put a drug in your body when you have no idea how it works?”
Do most people know how things work that they put into their body? Nope. Monkey see, monkey do. Lots of other people have taken it, some with good results, so others will take it.
“Because physical illnesses are provable, whereas mental illnesses are not”
Mental illness is provable, there are a number of degenerative brain diseases that result in personality changes/aggression/mania/depression. They’ve published recently in Nature how bipolar mood swings cause brain damage.
Again, I think it’s down to the above – people having to deal with it. If you tell someone that you lose the sensation in your hands every so often, but the doctors find nothing wrong, people will be more understanding than, say, telling someone you’re a schizophrenic in remission.
“I am told often that my illness isn’t real and that I am, as a person, flawed for having this illness.”
You don’t need to justify yourself to anyone. On the internet, in life, there’s going to be jackasses. I’m not talking about people who have a different opinion to you. I’m talking about when you have undeniable, trusted in a court of law proof of something, and they will still argue that you are wrong, and that your evidence is wrong.
You’re better than that Seaneen.
when i was first diagnosed i was actually diagnosed with TLE and BP. but the doc who diagnosed it (who was, i was told, one of the best neuro-psychs in the UK) was rather odd about it – he did all the standard TLE tests (eegs and so forth) and they were all negative – but he still diagnosed it. he was later struck off because (from what i was told) he’d diagnosed something like 95% of his patients with TLE & BP and given us all carbamazepine. it was something to do with drug-pushing i think (not dealing, just being in cahoots with the pharma company).
carbamazepine had a really bad effect on me – it actually induced psychosis. i’d had psychotic eps before but hadn’t for a little while. within a few days of being on it i was fully psychotic again :S
ps: one thing i would say is that SPS and CPS are relatively short term things, i believe – i know from my own experience that psychotic episodes that might resemble them have gone on for some time – often for days or even weeks, which i don’t think is consistent with a seizure. but i speak purely as a layman so i might be wrong.
I am not manic depressive, but I have loved more than one person who is. I wrote about some of the same issues you mentioned here on my own blog, a bit back. You are not alone.
http://larmes.blogspot.com/2007/05/touched-with-fire.html
I was diagnosed with complex partial seizures as a child (requiring medication for 5 years) then BP1 as an adult. I have always wondered if there was a connection between the two, other than the drugs used. Both can make you feel very out of control!
As always enjoy checking out what is happening on your blog.
[...] Seaneen is her inquisitiveness to understand the process of her mental disorder. Her article, Is Bipolar Disorder a Form of Epilepsy? is a good example of how she weaves technical research material with her personal experiences so [...]
wow! the afforementioned dis. happens review is quite the compliment miss molloy. i hope you read it
When I recently filled out a Disability Living Allowance form and came to the section where it says “Do you suffer from seizures?”, I was tempted to write about some of my symptoms there. I have these incredibly sudden fits of rage that come out of nowhere and can disappear just as quickly. They can happen at any time, for instance in the middle of a conversation. They feel physical (I mean in my head) and are accompanied by physical symptoms such as a racing heartbeat. It feels like I’m having a fit.
I discussed this with the consultant and she’s sending me for an EEG scan (I have had one before).
Even if manic depression was reclassified as a epilepsy type disease I don’t think that would necessarily reduce the stigma. A couple of years ago I was walking through Hyde Park when I saw someone collapse ahead of me. People walked past the bloke until a woman jogger stopped. The woman – who it turned out was a doctor – was asking people if she could use someone’s mobile to dial 999. People just kept walking past, with the odd unhelpful comment like the bloke was probably drunk. When I got there I phoned 999. While we were waiting for the ambulance the doctor told me that the peoples’ reactions were fairly typical. Apparently that’s how the great British public react when they see someone having a seizure.
tony nunn, i have those attacks of rage also – my consultant seemed to classify them as short-lived psychotic episodes, but i know what you mean, they feel very physical and totally uncontrollable.
i think it’s disgusting how people react – i’ve seen people walk past such incidents as well. it almost makes me wish someone close to them would have a seizure and be ignored by everyone – perhaps it would shock them into action.
wow I would never think people would be such jerks, well except that I know better.
I mean I know that here in the states there have been cases where someone has been being murderd or raped by one (1) person and a whole crowd of people will ignore it and let it happen. SO I guess it doesn’t suprise me that public would ignore someone having a seizure, or a heart attack etc., for that matter.
If you don’t know the person its not your problem right?
ick. people disgust me.
I too suffer from epilepsy, diagnosed in my early 40’s, I’ve been prescribed Dilantin.
From the research I’ve done, it seems that alot of what may be happening to me is hormonal.
Epilepsy is a symptom of something else.
I have had 3 clonic tonic seizures, but now that my meds. are at a theraputic level, I only suffer from SPS (aura’s) and are most previlant 1 week prior to menses.
Thanks for this opportunity to share, I l@@k forward to reading more!
you make some v interesting points… but complex partial seizures have little in common with catatonic type states … generally people in seizures (full or partial) are in an alternate consciousness or “unconscious” … ie when they come out of the fit they have no memory… i once was with someone going into partial seizures i honestly suspected she was faking and jabbed my fingers at her rolling eyes … she did not react at all (which is v difficult – finger in eye…) she wasn’t faking and didn’t remember … also it might SOUND similar but trust me i’ve seen a lot of epilepsy the states don’t LOOK similar at all… but it is an interesting comparison … ECT was originally (so I hear) used as treatment for schizophrenia on the basis that generating an epileptic fit (which is what ect does) would somehow snap people out of schizophrenic state .. of course it seems to work far better in depression though i know one person who regrets ever agreeing to it … you say Drs have no idea how lithium works? … the only theory i’ve heard (apart from lithium battery comparison but surely that’s a joke) was that the brain neurons have a sodium-potassium pump, as messages transfer one neuron to another the positive-negative electrical charge switches and these 2 salts pump out… lithium is also a salt and may dampen down excessive neuronal activity …
… sorry but that’s all I grasp on that subject
hey what is it doing gremlins … this is my sites here
This is so interesting to me. My family has a history of seizures but only during the first week or so of life. After that, no seizures. So no diagnosis of epilepsy. (They say it’s from a lack of calcium in the pituitary gland.)
Two of my cousins died under “mysterious circumstances” a year ago (that’s a polite way to say suicide), and a little before that I was diagnosed with bipolar. Hmm…
Try a diagnosis of “epilepsia partialis continua”…continual partial seizures showing with the shaking of the arms, chest and legs…continually. Treatment, now Depakote, but been on 7 others before diagnosis.
Suicide….I can see how that would happen. Hope, we always have that. And Faith, yes, that too!
Bloody hell, that sounds grim.
What else did you take?
[...] Folks with bipolar have been taking some of the same meds as folks with epilepsy for a while now. Might be a coincidence. Might mean they’re two ends of the same thing. [...]
Have you considered lactose intolerence as a possible source of your problem? Within a week of stopping all milk product consumption my bipolar (with seizures) was gone. Its been over a year now without any symptoms.
It’s fantastic that you found something so unobtrusive that works for you, Greg, but as a former vegan I have to say that lactose intolerance is not a factor in my bipolar, personally. I’m glad it’s successful for you, though!
It’s also odd that hallucinations seem to go along with certain forms of BD– is that right? When I was a tot, I used to have “visions.” I wonder if the two are related.
[...] of depression, manic depression, anxiety, schizoaffective disorder, addiction and schizophrenia (their symptomatic similarities to biological illnesses such as epilepsy only strengthens my convicti…). Personality disorders and other illnesses like Dissociative Identity Disorder are prominently [...]
[...] Illness: Part 1 The Insane Guide to Living With Mental Illness- Part 1: Depression Mind Vs Body Is bipolar disorder a form of epilepsy? Cyclothymia Fear is the best contraceptive Fiction Please don’t ban smoking on acute wards, [...]
[...] I really hope it does mean something. Mental illness needs to be taken as seriously as physical illness. I think it would take a long time for the stigma of mental illness to shimmy away, but an actual physical scrap of evidence that This Is Real would help enormously. So far, the most convincing evidence to me is bipolar symptoms and medications overlapping with epil… [...]
My husband, 43, was just diagnosed with TLE, and was diagnosed as Bipolar I three years ago. So interesting to see that you, and a number of your respondents, have the same combination… His psychiatrist told him that TLE is specifically associated with depression following seizure episodes.
We found recently that driving over a speed of 40 mph is a seizure trigger. I wonder if anyone else has had a similar problem — or if perhaps train travel at comparable speeds can bring one on?
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The White Shepherd Internet News
http://www.marybolin.com/
My husband’s sister was diagnosed with bipolar and my sister has epilepsy. Our 7 yr old daughter was just diagnosed with epilepsy but I see the bipoar tendencies in her as well. Coincodence?
My ten-year old son is being treated with anti-depressants/antipsychotics for possible bipolar disorder, (first manifested while a toddler) and recently my brother’s four-year-old son started experiencing seizures and is being treated (unsuccessfully thus far) with Lamictal. Genetically related illnesses?
Is bipolar disorder a form of epilepsy?
Yes,
In epilepsy, there is uncontrolled conduction of bio-electricity across neurotransmitters for short duration of time.
Where as in Bipolar high, this duration is long but the amount of bio-current is comparatively less.
In bipolar low , signal voltage is too low to conduct the bio-charge across neurotransmitters or there may be the case of increased isolation between the emitter and collector of neurotransmitter.
Please see the working of IGBT – Insulated Gate Bipolar Transistor for understanding the Bipolar Disorder or epilepsy.
We use lithium carbonate for bipolar disorder(We also use lithium compound in batteries ). This change the working of neurotransmitters by setting the right gate voltage for proper functioning of neurotransmitters.
In nut shell, improper gate drive voltage may cause either access transmission or too less causing epilepsy, bipolar high or low ….
We also use lithium compound in batteries.
Great! No matter Epilepsy or Bipolar Disorder. For the treatment of both we are merely changing the dielectric quotient of synaptic materials with in neurotransmitters. It is more like controlling the nerve signal with altered gate voltage at synaptic or by changing dielectric coefficient of neuron conducting material.
I always think of a brilliant bipolar electronic engineer during hypomania decides to go for some kind of master studies in neurology and find some path breaking solution for all sort of neurological disorders.
A pure medic, without hardcore electronics and without being affected with Bipolar Disorder has limited ability to see the scenario in complete perspective.
It is a good site .
every one can read this site .so,it is useful for all.
__________________________________________
kate
Dual Diagnosis
http://www.dual-diagnosis.net
The author of this blog makes a type I error equating an aura and manic episode are one and the same. Epilepsy is NOT an expression of bipolar disorder. Epilepsy is a seperate neurological disorder involving loss of consciousness. While there can be reactive events associated with a seizure, the state of mania and seizure are two seperate conditions.
The link the author uses to support his claim, (the study by Kudo T, Ishda S, Kubota Yaqi K), makes this conclusion. The authors conclude that a manic episode after a seizure and a manic episode related to bipolar disorder are HETEROGENEOUS. i.e. the causation is seperate.
An “aura” is mistakenly equated with a manic episode in the blog. However, a sensation of aura is not a state of mania. Rather, an aura is a specific sensation that briefly identifies that a seizure is about to occur. In contrast, state of mania is a cognitive, psychological condition that involves an abnormally elevated emotional state. While many will react emotionally to an aura, the aura does not cause an elevated emotional state.
Someone who experiences a sensation that is specifically associated with loss of consciousness may also experience an emotionally elevated state. However, this elevated state is a reactive event, reactive to a specific sensation and discomfort with the pending events. When the sensation declines, the discomfort and reactive syndrome disappears. This is not the same as bipolar disorder. WIth bipolar disorder, state of mania involves a cognitive process that moves to a state of panic. Completely seperate from the experience of seizure.
Why does state of mania occur in some with epilepsy? In ANY syndrome involving loss of consciousness, there is an uncomfortable state, from mild discomfort to the state of panic, that occurs in reaction to the loss of consciousness or associated sensations that occur. Pending loss of consciousness, regardless of the cause, is incredibly uncomfortable and can cause a state of mania for anyone. Conditions that are not neurological, but involve loss of consciousness, often involve the same state. For example, a first experience with low blood sugar, may experience a state of mania if the cause is not identified. An uncomfortable sensation occurs, hands might shake, and the person is asking , “WHAT IS THIS??? WHAT IS THIS???” until the cause is identified. Respiratory conditions involve a similar state of panic. There is a state of panic that is reactive to uncomfortable warning sensation, loss of control and the pending events that follow. It happens with plenty of other disorders.
Not everyone with epilepsy experiences a state of panic associated with seizure. The state of panic is a reactive event that diminishes as the person gains experience with the uncomfortable sensations associated with seizure. There are many people with epilepsy who paniced with their first experience of this new sensation, but with experience, no longer react in such a manner. Some are so experienced they shrug their shoulders and and passively wait until they are conscious. However, to anyone new to the experince of loss of consciousness, there is a state of panic involved and that state of panic is not manic disorder.
I almost have to laugh when the author associates a simple partial seizure with a catatonic episode. Two completey different conditions. A catatonic episode involves immobility, rigid positioning, for HOURS. Repetitive phrases, repetitive motor behavior, staying mute, absence of movement….completely seperate from a seizure. In a seizure someone experiences a warning, loses consciousness, and recovers. Epilepsy is not schizophrenia. Do people with schizophrenia have seizures? Yes, many do! However does everyone with epilepsy have schizophrenia, not at all.
It is easy to research epilepsy if you are that curious. Go to a college library, look at the resources. Start with definition, and expand into any direction. Don’t make the mistake of starting with an assumption then desperately trying to support the assumption. While this path is easy, you wont get accurate results.
I found this very interesting — my father, who was diagnosed towards the end of this life with bipolar disorder, always told me as a child that he had a mild form of epilepsy — I assume he was diagnosed at some point, probably in the 50’s.
hi i posted this to the about section o f secret life of a manic depressive when i first discovered the site but realise that i should have also posted it to this one too
i am so glad i found your site
my son was diagnosed with bi polar 1 with psychosis 19 years ago and has been in the psychiatric system for that time
he doesn’t have your insight and in the past has come of his medication just at the time when it had taken effect and he needed to continue with it- he currently has a 100 mg depot each week of depixol – a small dose – he has been on larger doses and many other antipsychotics in the past-he was also on lithium for a time which gave him a very good quality of life for a year but also serious side effects and he came off it and
for about ten years he has used street drugs to control his symptoms and currently smokes £10 per day of heroin and 70 mls of methadone to keep him stable- this has never increrased and does actually help though i had to go on a steep learning curve to accept their use and understand his need for them and that mental health professionals themselves know of many patients who use these drugs to dampen down their psychoses where legal anti-psychotic drugs do not.
i am not suggesting that you go down this path- my son has many convictions for possession of a class A drug.
my family have been through hell with this illness and because my son’s father has a similar tendency to mental ill health though not as serious[ we split up a long time ago ] he does try to help from a distance but can’t deal with the everyday issues which arise
i have four other children who have all suffered through my sons behaviour , though they are now as adults able to reflect on their brother’s illness and see it and him with more compassion
my son has spent some time in prison for non payment of fines [ 3 weeks] ,a year in psychiatric hospital as well as shorter term admissions under a section, and tried to end his life three times about five years ago in the same period . his quality of life can be said to be very poor and because of his vulnerability often gets exploited by others around him
the reason i am contributing to your blog however is twofold- yes you write amazingly well- you are talented- let this help you to deal with your illness and make a living
and to also tell you about an entry i read about epilepsy and bp disease i encountered on your website
as a child my son was epileptic – maybe lasted about five years all told – and as it was the type known as petit mal was not treated with any of the medication available and i was advised it would clear up in the course of time and i should not worry. as my son is also extremely intelligent and was progressing well at school and the sleep time absences receeded i did indeed think that he was in fact recovering by the time he was 8 years old. However his behaviour then became a little bit OCD and he would spend hours getting ready for school washing his hands[ thats when he would go in the bathroom at all because of becoming contaminated] and would exhibit other odd behaviours. Still i did not worry unduly about these as i thought he would grow out of them with support, which he almost did , but there remain some vestiges of this even now.I didn’t connect these to his epilepsy at the time.
what i came to think over the years however and especially as i reflected on his illness and the lack of clarity the professionals had about how mental ill health can occur [ and at the time the theory that the home environment caused mental illness was gaining ground ] was that actually all these aspects of my sons behaviour and his illness are linked and that his illness is actually biological in origin and that his childhood epilepsy was the onset of this
however there has only been one psychiatric health professional who has ever been interested in taking a history of my sons life and trying to understand the connection between the way he is now and how he was as a child-
she them precribed him some carbamazapine to supplement the anti psychotics and his mood did change considerably for a whole year [ this was when he was in the hospital long term- not the same year as taking lithium ]
unfortunately as is often the case when my son was discharged he came under the care of another psych who took him off the carbamazapine as there was “not enough evidence that it worked”!
if he had wanted to i would have pushed to get this medication represcribed but as it was my son had put on three stone in hospital and attributed it to the carbmazapine- and he quickly wanted to lose it
over the years i have become the expert about my sons illness and the only one who can provide continuity of information to the various professionals involved yet only once have i ever been asked seriously for a history to support a diagnosis
when i read the entry about epilepsy and bp i was elated not because it holds out a cure for my son but because a patient had taken the time to research the potential relationship between the two conditions,and often all the great break throughs which come about in any walk of life are discovered or revealed by people who are most closely involved with them [- this can include dedicated professionals too] .
so i am urging you to carry on with your blog
i will contribute with any information i can
i did write to louis appleby the mental health tzar in england to discuss the issue of using opiates in the treatment of mental illness but of course he is limited by his profession in what he can condone or discuss publicly
and i want to say to you -you are your own best physican – stay conficdent in that- and thank goodness for an open and free internet
best wishes and love
hope you are getting some relief at the moment
liz xx
My daugher, sadly no longer here, was eventually diagnosed with rapid cycling bipolar affective disorder although I can see similarities with borderline personality disorder (?the same thing). My brother had epilepsy, grand mal fits and on Phenytoin and as a child would be anti-social at times, uncoperative and appeared to lack empathy and my daughter exhibited similar patterns of behaviour so I thought she would grow out of this. At puberty, she withdrew with chronic irritability, self harm and truency. We tried to get help but she resisted as she did not want to be labelled.
I can’t help but think that there is a link with the family history of epilepsy and my daughter’s bipolar disorder.
I am truly starting to believe there is a link with Bipolar and Epilepsy. We have a child whose biological father is probable Bipolar and also experienced seizures in childhood. Our child is diagnosed bipolar traits because he is too young to fit standard criteria to diagnose bipolar. He has been having absence seizures and just very recently a sensory seizure. This past seizure sent him into a manic state for a week. But his anti seizure med was increased because of the seizure so we are not sure if that may have brought on the mania. There needs to be more studies and committed research for the sake of those who struggle with this.
Take Care all
kathie
Help, please, anyone there – I came upon this site while seeking bi-polar info & will welcome information, advice or suggestions from anyone living with bi-polar condition on ways to cope, medications that worked or didn’t work for them, side effects of meds, good books on bi-polar, etc.I feel trapped in my situation with no way to turn to get out & maybe someone with another perspective will have ideas. I feel so helpless & dependant & hate it. I was diagnosed bi-polar manic depressive a few months ago. The pyschiatrist actually says Bi-Polar II. At the time, I sought help, my life was spinning out of control. I had begun seeking psychiatric help, but it took so long for diagnosis & medications to be prescibed that I lost my job & health insurance. My problems had been mounting for awhile. I’d been treated for depression off & on for years. Major problems were, (1) sleep difficulties which resulted in an inability to wake up & get to work on time (2) memory problems, (3) frustration often related to memory problems – things like being unable to locate my keys or forgetting appointments (4) frustration leading to rage, well out of proportion to the problem – I keep that in check around others, but alone am a maniac – ranting, screaming, throwing things. In addition there were other stress factors: Long work hours. Being fired repeatedly for late arrival to work. Break-up of a long relationship. Moving. Having car totaled – twice. Borrowing money I haven’t been able to repay. Bankruptcy. Providing care for family members with lengthy illnesses. Deaths of immediate family members. Providing care for a parent with dementia. High blood pressure. Hormonal problems after hysterectomy surgery. Aging & its associated aches & pains. Having an affair that broke up the other persons marriage. Having more pets than I can now well provide for. I have watched my life deteriorate over the last 5 years. I once had a good job (held upper management & executive positions), a home in nice neighborhood, good salary, etc. I am now unemployed & destitute. I am in a dependant relationship with a person who has good qualities, but is also controlling & needy & thinks the world revolves around them. That person provides a home & food, reluctantly pays my few bills & gives little more. I have resorted to selling my jewelry, china, silver, books, etc to buy gas & pet food. I buy nothing- really, NOTHING, for myself. I need dental care, I’ve gained weight & my clothes don’t fit, I haven’t had a haircut in 8 months that I didn’t give myself. I have always been so independant & self-reliant – the giver, not the taker. I don’t know who I am anymore. Who is this person who steals change off my dad’s dresser to buy a can of pet food? We have had huge job losses in my area in the industry in which I have always been employed. The companies where I had good work histories are out of business. I’ve lost touch with friends & co-workers. How do I get a job when I’ve been fired repeatedly & don’t think I can be “on time” now – its the hardest thing I do all day, arrive on time! I don’t have some of the symptoms to the extremes I read above – no drug or alcohol problems, no grandiose ideas of who I am – its just like I’m either racing or swimming through mud. I desperately need my life back . I have always been self-reliant & independant. I don’t come from a well-to-do family, I’m not married & have no children, there is no one to really care for me but ME. I have no money & there are no free mental health clinics in my area. I’m taking a free samples of a blood pressure drug provided by my doctor, estradiol as a hormone replacement, & Tegretol (carbamazapine) for the bi-polar disorder (the last two are $4 prescriptions from WalMart). The psychiatrist prescribed a sleeping pill, but it caused a bad rash, so I don’t take it. The Tegretol requires bloodwork because it can cause fatal liver disease or liver cancer. As have no money for the bloodwork, I am taking it at 1/2 dose so as not to do more harm than good. When the Tegretol runs out, I doubt the doctor will prescribe more as I haven’t had the bloodwork. I owe him $300 anyway. I just want to feel normal, to think clearly, to function like everyone else. I need to work & not feel like all I can do is some menial job. I see the info above about possible connections to epilepsy. I have read that staring spells may be a mild form of epilepsy – I find myself doing that, my sister, niece, mother also did it. I even have a picture of my grandmother with that blanked out look. It lasts a few seconds to a few minutes, I’m always aware of what is going on, just don’t really respond to it, then “blink” I move the eyes & act as usual. Just mentioning that. I also get severe migraines at times – sister & niece have those also. Any comments appreciated. Thanks Jay
Hello,
Everyone is different in terms of medications and coping, have a read through comments here which share experiences.
Books that are helpful include:
You don’t have to be famous to have manic depression:
http://www.penguin.co.uk/nf/Book/BookDisplay/0,,9780718149680,00.html
An Unquiet Mind
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Unquiet-Mind-Kay-Redfield-Jamison/dp/0330346512
The Darkness Visible
http://www.amazon.com/Darkness-Visible-Madness-William-Styron/dp/0679736395
[...] field of research. Back in August, Seaneen from Secret Life of a Manic Depressive wrote the post Is bipolar disorder a form of epilepsy? Incidentally there has been quite a bit of research into the efficiency of treating Bulimia with [...]
I have had symptoms of temporal lobe epilepsy since childhood, but they were greatly enhanced, shall we say, after my fronto-temporal lobe head injury (sustained in a car accident.) A neurologist “ruled out” TLE at the time. I wish y’all could have seen my psychiatrist’s face when he heard that yesterday. He informed me that TLE *cannot* be “ruled out” in that manner and that it is diagnosed by symptoms and history– testing can help, but it misses TLE 90% of the time. He told me quite frankly that he doesn’t know if I have BP, TLE, organic brain syndrome, mood disorder due to a medical condition, or perhaps all of the above, illustrating his point by going into detailed explanations of how his committee put together the section on BP NOS in the DSM-IV-TR. If anyone doesn’t agree, go and argue with the head of neuropsychiatry at Vanderbilt Psychiatric, Hospital because he said it, not me. The point is that BP and TLE are interwoven in ways that nobody understands, and the best doctors know this. They don’t try to “explain away”possible connections; they respect them, and they treat real people who are really suffering instead of getting wrapped up in arcane technical points.
This definitely makes sense to me. I just (seriously, just now) found out that those “zoning out” periods I had in high school and beyond are actually called petit mal seizures. I’ve also been diagnosed as bipolar. Even now, I’ll have moments when I’m talking, black out, then completely forget the conversation.
I think this post and the discussion is really fascinating- thanks! I have had seizures since I was 11 and three episodes of serious depression. I always thought there was a link between the two, though no one would believe me. My seizures are classified as tonic clonic, because that is how they end up, but every time they start with an aura (a vision) so there could be a TLE impairment that spreads I guess.
I think there is so much we don’t know about how the brain works, its quite possible your theories are more accurate than your realise! I just wish Mr +Mrs Average Citizen would learn some empathy and realise we are doing the best we can!
i found your blog after the radio play based on it that was on yesterday. i have a friend with bipolar so i have sent her a link to it.
my son is autistic and what you write about the physical side of mental illness could equally be said about autism. for many years the theory was that mothers caused it (the refrigerator mother theory) but now, with brain scans, they can see it is neurological. i am amazed that no-one realised it was a physical thing before – autistic people have so many physical traits in common.
i think you hit the nail on the head when you said that it is the way the condition manifests itself that makes the difference. like mental illness, autism makes people do things that some people find uncomfortable. people with down syndrome meet with far less animosity in public than people with autism because of the way autism affects behaviour. if i had a quid for every time someone in a supermarket asked me “can’t you control that child?” i would be a millionaire!
Hi,
Your article brings up some interesting points, although from everything I have read it seems that epilepsy which I have by the way and people with epilepsy are discriminated against as well, just to let you know.; and bipolar disorder both use the same kind of meds because the neurons in the brain are what cause the problem, different forms of epilepsy, different areas of the brain. People with mood disorders also take the meds. I have also suffered from depression and the meds that I take did not help with that, I had to take different meds for that. I have and aunt who is diagnosed as bipolar and an aunt who was schizophrenic, so not entirely out of the ball park that all would be tied together. I found your comments because I was looking for an article that I found at one time that was talking about a medical breakthrough that talked about a medication that would help with epilepsy, severe depression/mood disorders and addictions, I think it was a reader’s digest article and it was a Mayo Clinic breakthrough but having trouble locating it, but was glad to come upon your article.